Posted originally on the CTH on March 10, 2024 | Sundance

The non-pretending reality behind this duo is that Marco Rubio knows Mark Warner participated in an illicit and unlawful effort to target Donald Trump using the intelligence community and the national security institutions which included the DHS, ODNI, CIA, FBI, NSA and a weaponized DOJ-NSD.

There is absolutely zero possibility Rubio didn’t know what the U.S intelligence apparatus, DOJ, Mueller team and his friend across the aisle, Mark Warner, was doing. Despite the SSCI silo that surrounds him, Senator Rubio knew the motives, intents and purposes of every element within this network from 2016 through 2021. Denying this reality is pretending on a level that is insulting to the honest observer.

As a consequence of that reality, anything Rubio and Warner say about the national security status is suspect to an admission they are both selling a story that is based on an entirely false framework about the construct of the geopolitical world outside the USA. If you understand the cleaving taking place between both global zones, West and non-West, then everything Warner and Rubio say about activity outside the Western sphere becomes transparently motivated. Most of their review is complete BS, and akin to trying to obfuscate the reality of the world “out there.”  WATCH:

TRANSCRIPT – MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for doing this–

SENATOR MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: –and for speaking in the bipartisan way you’re sitting down with us today. How would you both define the greatest national security threat facing our country right now?

SENATOR MARK WARNER (D-VA):  Well, I would define the immediate threat of making sure we push back Putin’s aggressive behavior in Ukraine, that we try to resolve the circumstance in Gaza, where you can eliminate Hamas, but also recognize the humanitarian challenge. But frankly, over a longer term, the bigger challenge, I think, remains China. We’ve never had a nation of equivalent economic size. And they are investing in technology domain after technology domain, where they hope to not only be number one, but frankly, dominate the field. And I think Marco and I, and our committee has really been at the leading edge of trying to expose that whether it was 5G or whether it was challenged around TikTok or the the need to make sure we bring the semiconductor industry back, but that China long term threat.

SEN. RUBIO: Yeah I think in a broader sense, I would say that the world is, you know, countries around the world have determined the unipolar world is over, and they seek to challenge it. In China’s case, they want to, if not replace, at least be an alternative to an American led system that’s been in place, certainly since the end of the Cold War, and even predating back to the end of the second world war. The Russians argue that they’re a great power, who are who deserved to have buffer nations outside of their borders that they have control over. Hence, you know, they want a bunch of Belaruses. That’s what they want Ukraine to become, and other places like that. And and then Iran wants to be, they want to export the Islamic Revolution throughout the Middle East, and they already have proxies operating inside of Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. They want to threaten Jordan, Bahrain, and ultimately make Israel an unlivable place and have regional dominance in that way. And then you’ve got North Korea, which is increasingly becoming aggressive in- in the way it’s responding to South Korea in both rhetoric and actions. So all these are interrelated. It’s a challenge to the world order of and it’s led this loose coalition of countries who and sometimes work in concert to challenge not just America, but our alliances.

SEN. WARNER: And I think what Marco just said is, these authoritarian regimes are more closely aligned than they were even five years ago.

MARGARET BRENNAN: On the immediate issue of the Middle East, Ramadan begins this Sunday, there’s concerns that because of a high degree of tension in the region, a spark could really lead to an explosion. Through the U.S. national security lens, how concerned are you about the rising risk to U.S. interests in the Middle East because of the close alliance with Israel’s war in Gaza?

SEN. RUBIO:  Well, I think the risk is it’s pre existing, obviously, now we have active shooting going on and people back and forth that always leads to mis- miscalculation risks, and in some cases, hostility like we’ve seen already from the Houthis out of Yemen. The goal,  I think it’s a mistake to view October 7, simply through the lens of the Palestinian Israeli question. I think the reason why Hamas was armed, equipped and felt the confidence is this broader narrative, this broader objective that Iran has to drive the US out of the region.  It is why they are conducting attacks in Iraq and Syria, they want a US troop presence out of the region completely. So then–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Should it stay?

SEN. RUBIO: Huh?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you believe that those 2500 troops in the region should say

SEN. RUBIO: I do and the reason why I believe that is because they are not only there on the counter ISIS mission, let’s not forget that group is still existing, and it’s still a threat. But because they sit, the reason why Iran wants us out of there is that are we are stationed at key points that tie Damascus and Baghdad and all these supply routes that Iran wants to dominate, if we were gone, these proxy groups are now be at the border of Jordan, be able to threaten Jordan and ultimately threaten Israel as a result. But I am concerned I mean, whether it’s Hezbollah and up in the north of Israel, whether it’s what’s happening in Gaza, whether it’s what’s happening with Yemen, the risk of of conflict is very real. It’s a dangerous and tenuous situation. There’s no doubt about.

SEN. WARNER: But–

MARGARET BRENNAN:  President Biden’s reviewing whether to keep those troops in Iraq in the same numbers.

SEN. WARNER: And I’ll be anxious to see what he says. I do think, though–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think they should stay?

SEN. WARNER: I think in terms of current basis, yes. Because as long as we’ve got these Iranian backed militias, and others, promoting a level of violence, and I agree with Marco in terms of trying to push us out, but I also think, potentially out of this enormous tragedy, the tragedy of October 7, and now the humanitarian tragedy of 30,000, Palestinians killed. You gotta look at some level of optimism- Israel had already aligned with a number of the Sunni states in the region. I was recently in Saudi Arabia, I think they would like to find some level of peace, post the Gaza conflict with Israel, a stronger defense relationship with the United States. I do think we need to acknowledge the Shia driven efforts to not only push us out but also undermine the Sunni states in the region. And there could be an opportunity for a grander alliance, but that will mean the, the violence has to stop. And you know I think we both have a lot of respect for Bill Burns, the CIA director who has been doing yeoman work, trying to negotiate this hostage exchange, which would lead to at least that short term ceasefire.

MARGARET BRENNAN: President Biden wants to establish a port in Gaza to try to bring humanitarian aid in. It’s not exactly clear the cost, the U.S. military role. Do you think that is a good decision? And given what has happened, this tragic incident recently with a hundred civilians killed, some of them shot by Israeli soldiers according to the IDF because they were clamoring for food. Do you see any clear evidence of who is to blame for that violence that day?

SEN. WARNER: I don’t have the after action report. But I do think this, I mean, remember, United States has been the largest single donor to humanitarian efforts for years in the region. And I think it is important that we continue to show that. I mean, the airlift approach is more symbolic than it actually getting relief to most folks. But the idea and I’ve discussed this with some of the folks in administration, of using Cyprus as a staging point where the aid can be checked to make sure nothing else gets in, the potential then of having that aid moved from Cyprus, to a place where we can set up the equivalent of a field hospital that could help provide the particularly in North Gaza, the humanitarian relief, that is both the right thing to do. And I think the right thing to do in terms of, particularly as we go into Ramadan, hopefully lowering some of the tension, but also shows America’s concern for some of the humanitarian costs in the region.

SEN. RUBIO: I would just add one thing to this. And that is, it’s important understand why. Everybody’s in favor of helping innocent civilians who are caught in the crossfire of any conflict. I think it’s important to understand the reason why aid can’t get to them. And the principal reason why is Hamas has built this system of tunnels, it’s expensive. I mean, I don’t care if they got a great deal on the concrete, it’s expensive to build this extensive system of tunnels, millions of dollars, that’s money that could have gone to create an economy, to feed people, to build hospitals and, and serve civilians. They didn’t do it. And there’s real concern, and I think, very legitimate reason to believe that any aid that goes in there will be grabbed by Hamas used for their purposes, at the expense of the civilian population. Hamas has a track record of zero when it comes to caring about the lives of civilians or of society in general. They’re an entirely war footing. That’s all they do. And, and I think there’s just real concern that- real reason to believe that any additional aid would be taken- would go directly to Hamas will be controlled by them.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you know, that the U.S. Ambassador David Satterfield, who’s handling that, has said, in written letters to Congress, that they have no evidence that Hamas is stealing the aid, certainly not defending Hamas at all. But saying that aid can continue to be pushed into Gaza without Hamas stealing it, the issue is the criminal groups–

(CROSSTALK)

SEN. RUBIO: Well, I’ll just respond personally, I don’t know what he’s talking about. Because   how does Hamas get food? Hamas does not have an economy. Hamas does- Hamas- everything Hamas gets comes from abroad, from Iranians and from what they take. I think the evidence is in place that they have existed as an organization without any means of generating revenue other than what they are able to capture from others, that’s just common sense.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, but in terms of now, with the aid getting in now?

(END CROSSTALK)

SEN. WARNER: I- I think the- the food and water and other relief aid I think it is- you’ve got to make sure you have a distribution system. But I think I agree with Ambassador Satterfield. But let’s also step back for a moment. And I think a lot of the arms, food, other things that have supported Hamas was the fact that they have this tunnel network, which is close to 500 kilometers. I don’t think we- any of us fully expected that. And they have been able [to] secure that. The fact that we are 140 days, roughly, into this invasion, I think most of us, even in the region, thought the Israeli Defense Fund- Defense Forces would be able to take out Hamas. 140 days in, they’ve basically taken out only about 35% of the Hamas- Hamas fighters, and literally have only penetrated less than a third of the tunnel network.

And one of the things and again, as I think Marco indicated, the extensive network, we’ve had- we brought in some of our experts (unintelligible) to say that if- if this was us trying to take out this tunnel network, could we do it quicker, more efficiently? And candidly, the answer was, maybe we could be a bit faster. But when Hamas is gruesomely holding the hostages, to prevent some of the takeout of the tunnels? This is one of the lessons, this and I think the lesson of drones and in Ukraine, are two of the things in terms of military doctrine I think that we’re gonna have to learn from both of these conflicts.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But- but just to button that up. I mean, when Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister, says total victory is “within reach”, weeks away. You are not describing total victory within weeks.

SEN. WARNER: I- I have not–

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re saying the impact’s tiny.

SEN. WARNER: Meeting with- meeting with folks in Israel, in the military community, in the intelligence community, the idea that you’re going to eliminate every Hamas fighter, I don’t think is a realistic goal.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you agree with that?

SEN. RUBIO: Well, I think that it is possible to achieve a situation in which Hamas does not have the capability to do what they did on October 7. That doesn’t mean Hezbollah doesn’t step in and take over now as a result, that doesn’t mean that a new Hamas offshoot wouldn’t recreate it. This is an ongoing challenge. And at the end, the head of this entire snake is the Iranian regime. They are the ones that provide the weaponry and the funds. There’s no Hamas fighters starving to death. There’s no Hamas leaders starving to death. They’re all fed. They all have medical care. And they all have all the assistance they need to continue to do the things they do. What you don’t want is a Hamas that can continue to launch missiles, particularly against civilian sites inside of Israel, which is the goal here of Iran, and that is to make Israel an unlivable place, so they can drive every Jew out from the river to the sea, and- and- and dominate the region. Do I think it’s- do I think it’s possible to degrade Hamas for some period of time and deny them the capability to- to be able to do that to Israel? Yes. But ongoing, moving forward, there’ll be challenges, because some new group will pop up.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And- and it’s a U.S. national security risk, the longer this goes on, is it not?

(CROSSTALK)

SEN. RUBIO: Well, all of it is–