Aug 18 2025

Secretary Marco Rubio -vs- Margaret Brennan

Posted originally on CTH on August 17, 2025 | Sundance

Secretary of State Marco Rubio appears on CBS to debate the ever-insufferable Margaret Brennan. The dramatic acting by the newscaster is off-the-charts. Both the video and the transcript are below.

[Transcript] – MARGARET BRENNAN: We begin with Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who attended those talks in Anchorage. Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO: Good morning. Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Vladimir Putin did not give President Trump the ceasefire he sought. And now Putin says the root causes of the conflict have to be resolved in a peace agreement. Isn’t the root cause the fact that Russia invaded in the first place?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, ultimately, yeah. But I mean, what he means by root causes is this long historical complaints that we’ve heard repeatedly. This is not a new argument, he’s been making this for a long time, and it’s the argument that it’s Western encroachment. I don’t want to get into- it’s just so long. But the bottom line is that all of- you know, we’re not going to focus on all of that stuff. We’re going to focus on this: are they going to stop fighting or not? And what it’s going to take to stop the fighting. And what it’s going to take to stop the fighting, if we’re being honest and serious here, is both sides are going to have to give, and both sides should expect to get something from this. And that’s a very difficult thing to do. It’s very difficult because Ukraine obviously feels, you know, harmed, and rightfully so, because they were invaded. And the Russian side, because they feel like they got momentum in the battlefield, and frankly, don’t care, don’t seem to care very much about how many Russian soldiers die in this endeavor. They just churn through it. So I think what the President deserves a lot of credit for is the amount of time and energy that his administration is placing on reaching a peace agreement for a war that’s not a war that started under him. It’s half, you know, it’s on the other side of the world. That said, I mean, it’s relevant to us. But there are a lot of other issues he could be focused on. So tomorrow, we’ll be meeting with President Zelenskyy. We’ll be meeting with European leaders. We just met with Putin. He’s dedicated a lot of time and energy because he has made it a priority of his administration to stop or end war- stop wars or prevent them. And right now, this is the biggest war going on in the world. It’s the biggest war in Europe since World War Two. We’re going to continue to do everything we can to reach an agreement that ends the dying and the killing and the suffering that’s going on right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You know this well, how long these kind of diplomatic negotiations often take. President Trump was telling European leaders what was discussed was Putin demanding control of Donetsk, a region in the east that his forces do not fully hold, and the UK estimates that taking that full area could be as long as another four years. Putin also is demanding Russian be an official language in Ukraine, and something regarding Russian Orthodox churches. Did the U.S. accept all of what Putin laid out at that table?

SEC. RUBIO: The United States is not in a position to accept anything or reject anything, because ultimately, it’s up to the Ukrainians. They’re the ones that Russia has to make peace with, Ukraine with Russia–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Well, the President said he did come to some agreement–

SEC. RUBIO: –It’s up to the Ukrainians to make these conditions. Well, the agreements were that we were going to try to do things like, for example, get a leader- a leaders meeting. We have to make enough progress so that we can sit down President Zelenskyy and President Zelenskyy and President Putin in the same place, which is what President Zelenskyy has been asking for, and reach a final agreement that ends this war. Now, there were some concepts and ideas discussed that we know the Ukrainians could be very supportive of in that meeting. I don’t think it’s- we’re not going to negotiate this in the media. I understand that everybody wants to know what happened. But ultimately, there are things that were discussed as part of this meeting that are potentials for breakthroughs, that are potentials for progress. We’ll be discussing that more in depth tomorrow, with our European allies, with the Ukrainians that are coming over. We’ll be discussing all of these things, because ultimately, we do need to find areas where we’re making progress and try to begin to narrow the gap between the two sides. But there’s a reason why this war has been going on for three and a half years, and that is, when it comes to the big issues here, there are still some big differences between both sides. Let’s see how much progress we can continue to make. It’s- it’s- it’s not been easy, but it’s something the President’s made a priority. Peace. And he deserves a lot of credit for that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But ultimately, if- if Vladimir Putin is going to be offered land that he has not seized yet, but negotiates his way into, doesn’t this set a dangerous precedent that the United States now accepts this concept that it is okay to seize land by force?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, Putin has already seized land by force, and that, in and of itself, is not a positive precedent. This whole war is a negative precedent–

MARGARET BRENNAN: — Are you demanding withdrawal?–

SEC. RUBIO: –precedent. Well, again, here’s the- in order to have a deal here to end- to reach the end of this conflict, both sides are going to have to make concessions. That’s just the facts–

[CROSSTALK]

MARGARET BRENNAN: But does that mean accepting–

SEC. RUBIO: –in any negotiation–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –where Russian forces are now?

SEC. RUBIO: No, no, but, if- But this is not about acceptance. This is about what Ukraine can accept. And what Russia can accept. They both have to accept it, otherwise there won’t be a peace deal. Okay. If there aren’t concessions, if one side gets everything they want, that’s called surrender. That’s called the end of the war through surrender. And that’s not what we’re close to doing, because neither side here is on the verge of surrender or anything close to it. So in order for there to be a peace deal, this is just a fact, we may not like it, it may not be pleasant, it may be distasteful, but in order for there to be an end of the war, there are things Russia wants that it cannot get, and there are things Ukraine wants that it’s not going to get. Both sides are going to have to give up something in order to get to the table, in order to make this happen. That’s- that’s just the way it is. And I mean, the sooner we accept that, that’s the reality. Now, what those things are is going to be up to both sides. There’s no conditions that can be imposed on Ukraine. They’re going to have to accept things, but they’re going to have to get things too. And so, for example, Ukraine is a sovereign country. They have a right, like every sovereign country does in the world, to have- to enter into security alliances with other countries to prevent an invasion in the future, to prevent threats to their national security. That’s not an unreasonable request. That’s something needs to be worked on. Territories will have to be discussed. It’s just a fact, and there are things that maybe Russia is holding now that they’re going to have to give up. Who knows? The point is, we need to create a scenario where that becomes possible, and that’s why this has been so hard, because neither side, up to now, has been willing to give on some of these things. But we’ll see if that’s possible. It may not be, but we’re going to try, and we’re going to do everything we can to try to achieve a peace.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand you, you can’t get into specifics in a public conversation, but we’re looking at Russian troops and strikes intensifying. Did you hear anything from Vladimir Putin that indicated he is willing to make a single concession?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, I think there are a couple. I mean, there were- not enough for Ukraine, if not we would be announcing a peace deal this morning, right? But- but certainly, there are some things we notice changes. There are some changes that I think are possible. I think there’s some concepts that were discussed that could potentially lead to something. But again, all these things have to be verifiable. We- it isn’t real until it’s real. I mean, you- one thing is what you say you might be willing to consider, another thing is your willingness to do it. And it always becomes a trade off in all of this. But you talk about the intensifying strikes on the Russian side, yeah, I mean, they’re a full-time war machine. I mean, that’s what’s happening. The Russian economy has basically been turned into a full-time wartime economy. They have a lot of people. It’s a big country. It’s not just large geographically. It has huge populations. It continues to churn through people. You know, they lost- 20,000 Russian soldiers were killed last month, in July, in this war. That just tells you the price they’re willing to pay. Not saying any of this is admirable, I’m saying that this is the reality of the war that we’re facing. It’s become attrition, in some ways. It’s a meat grinder, and they just have more meat to grind.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, let me ask you about the security bit you just mentioned there, because Italy’s Prime Minister says that President Trump revived the idea of security guarantees inspired by NATO’s Article Five and a collective security clause that would involve the United States. How does that work? Are these U.S. troops? Are these U.S. monitors?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, what we’re going to be working on. That’s why- that’s one of the reasons why, you know, I talked yesterday to all the national security advisors, a bunch of them from the different European countries, or European leaders coming here tomorrow, heads of state coming tomorrow, along with President Zelenskyy, to discuss this in more detail. I mean, the constructs of something like this needs to be built out once it- concept is one thing. The reality, you know, how it’s built and how it would work, is another. But those are the kinds of talks that we’re going to be having with them, along with some of the other issues that are at play. But, that-that is one of the-if you were to break this thing down, I mean, there are, obviously, there needs to be an agreement on territories and where the lines are going to be drawn. That’s not going to be very easy. That’s going to be tough. I think there has to be some discussion about security guarantees for Ukraine, because they don’t want this war to–none of us want to see this war in the future. They’re a sovereign country. They have a right to have security agreements with other countries and security alliances with other countries. And then there’s the whole issue of reconstruction–

MARGARET BRENNAN: — Including the United States?–

SEC. RUBIO: — How do you rebuild the country? Well, potentially, like I said, that’s what we’re going to be having a conversation about, and that’s what we’re going to be meeting. That’s why they’re all coming here tomorrow, and-and that’s why we’ve been talking on the phone for the last 48 hours with them, and even leading up to it throughout the week there were various meetings just to sort of build out some of these ideas. So all of these right now are ideas, they are concepts that require some more specificity. We’ll need to work with our partners to see what that looks like. And I think that’s an area where potential progress is real, but that alone won’t be enough. There’s a bunch of other things that have to be worked through here.

MARGARET BRENNAN Yea, well, Russia claims it has rescued 700,000 children. I know you know that the warrant out for Vladimir Putin’s arrest is for the state-sponsored abduction of kids. I’ve seen estimates there are something like 30,000 Ukrainian children who have been abducted. Is the United States demanding, or at least, even just as a statement of goodwill here, that Russia return these children?

SEC. RUBIO: Yeah, I mean, we’ve repeatedly raised that issue on- in every forum possible, and those have also been, by the way, topics of discussion, not just in our meetings with the Ukrainians, but in the negotiations and talks that were going on between Ukraine and Russia at the technical level. These talks were going on in Turkey, as an example. Turkey over the last few months–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Yeah, nothing so far from the Russians —

SEC. RUBIO: –that’s been a topic of discussion as well —

SEC. RUBIO: Well, it’s unfortunate. Children should be returned to their families. We- on that position, I don’t think there’s any ambiguity on our side. And they shouldn’t even be, you know, a bargaining chip in regards to a broader negotiation. But it’s just one more element of how tragic this war is. After three and a half years, this war is getting worse. It’s not getting better. You’ve made the point about the uptick in strikes. This is a war. It’s going to get worse. It’s not going to get better, and that’s why the President is investing so much time in bringing this to an end. And, by the way, everyone is begging us to be involved in this. The Europeans want us involved. The Ukrainians want us involved. Obviously, the Russians want us involved because the President is the only leader in the world- if this is possible, he’s the only one that can help make it happen.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he’s got the leverage over Vladimir Putin if he wanted to crush his economy or at least do more damage to it, but you have held off on those secondary sanctions. President Trump told Fox News his advice to President Zelenskyy is make a deal, Russia’s a very big power and they’re not. You know there is concern from the Europeans that President Zelenskyy is going to be bullied into signing something away. That’s why you have these European leaders coming as back up tomorrow. Can you reassure them?

SEC. RUBIO: No, it isn’t. That’s not why they’re coming as back- that’s not true. No but that’s not, why, that’s not true. They’re not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelenskyy from being bullied. They’re not coming- in fact —

[CROSSTALK]

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well that February Oval Office meeting in front of television cameras, where President Zelenskyy was dressed down —

SEC. RUBIO: — Do you know how many meetings we’ve had since then?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Oh, no, I know. And I was just up in Alaska —

SEC. RUBIO: Yeah, but we’ve had a bunch of meetings since then.

MARGARET BRENNAN: — watching the one with Vladimir Putin where a red carpet was rolled out for the Russian leader. It was very different–

SEC. RUBIO: — No, but it wasn’t Zelenskyy. We’ve had more meetings, we’ve had, we’ve had, we’ve had one meeting with Putin and like a dozen meetings with Zelenskyy. So that, but that’s not true. They’re not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelenskyy from being bullied. They’re coming here tomorrow because we’ve been working with the Europeans. We talked to them last week. There were meetings in the UK over the following, the previous weekend —

MARGARET BRENNAN: — And they said the President Trump was going to demand a ceasefire —

SEC. RUBIO: — The President’s talked to these leaders as early as Thursday. No, no, but you said that they’re coming here tomorrow to keep Zelenskyy from being bullied. They’re not coming here tomorrow- this is such a stupid media narrative that they’re coming here tomorrow because the- Trump is going to bully Zelenskyy into a bad deal. We’ve been working with these people for weeks, for weeks on this stuff. They’re coming here tomorrow because they chose to come here tomorrow. We invited them to come. We invited them to come. The President invited them to come.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But the President told those European leaders last week that he wanted a cease fire. The President went on television, said he would walk out of the meeting if Vladimir Putin didn’t agree with him. He said there would be severe consequences if he didn’t agree to one. He said he’d walk out in two minutes. He spent three hours talking to Vladimir Putin, and he did not get one,so–

SEC. RUBIO: –Because obviously something, things happen during that meeting, well, because obviously things,look our goal here is not to stage some production for the world to say, oh how dramatic he walked out. Our goal here is to have a peace agreement to end this war. Okay? And obviously we felt, and I agreed, that there was enough progress, not a lot of progress, but enough progress made in those talks to allow us to move to the next phase. If not, we wouldn’t be having Zelenskyy flying all the way over here. We wouldn’t be having all the Europeans coming all the way over here. Now understand, and take with a grain of salt, I’m not saying we’re on the verge of a peace deal, but I am saying that we saw movement, enough movement to justify a follow up meeting with Zelenskyy and the Europeans, enough movement for us to dedicate even more time to this. You talk about the sanctions. Look, at the end of the day, if peace is not going to be possible here, and this is just going to continue on as a war, people will continue to die by the thousands, the President has that option to then come in and impose new sanctions. But if he did this now, the moment the President puts those additional sanctions, that’s the end of the talks. You’ve basically locked in at least another year to year and a half of war and death and destruction. We may unfortunately wind up there, but we don’t want to wind up there. We want to wind up with a peace deal that ends this war so Ukraine can go on with the rest of their lives and rebuild their country and be assured that this is never going to happen again. That’s the goal here. We’re going to do everything possible to make that happen if it’s doable. It will require both sides to make concessions. It will require both sides to get things they’re asking for. That’s how these deals are made, whether we like it or not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Before I let you go, quickly, why did the State Department just announced that they’re halting visitor visas for all Gazans coming here for medical aid? Why would some of these kids, for example, who are coming to hospitals for treatment be a threat?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, first of all, it’s not just kids, it’s a bunch of adults that are accompanying them. Second, we had outreach from multiple congressional offices asking questions about it, and so we’re going to reevaluate how those visas are being granted, not just to the children, but how those visas are being granted to the people who are accompanying them. And by the way, to some of the organizations that are facilitating it. There is evidence, it’s been presented to us by numerous congressional offices, that some of the organizations bragging about and involved in acquiring these visas have strong links to terrorist groups like Hamas. And so we are not going to be in partnership with groups that are friendly with Hamas. So we need to- we’re going to pause those visas. There was just a small number of them issued to children, but they come with adults accompanying them, obviously, and we are going to pause this program and reevaluate how those visas are being vetted and what relationship, if any, has there been by these organizations to the- to the process of acquiring those visas. We’re not going to be in partnership with groups that have links or sympathies towards Hamas.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. We have to leave it there for this morning. Thank you for joining us.

SEC. RUBIO: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: ‘Face the Nation’ will be back in one minute. Stay with us.

Jun 23 2025

Secretary Marco Rubio -vs- Margaret Brennan

Posted originally on CTH on June 22, 2025 | Sundance

In this interview, the insufferable Margaret Brennan attempts to match intellect with Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Ms. Brennan fails miserably. The outcome is an epic broadcast of media bias, dramatic acting by Brennan and a very visible smackdown from a highly competent Rubio.

Margaret Brennan attempts to tell Marco Rubio what intelligence assessments are and how they are used. Now keep in mind as a U.S. Senator Marco Rubio was the Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and a member of the Gang of Eight conducting intelligence oversight for years. Brennan thought she could match wits with Rubio, she failed miserably; embarrassingly so. WATCH:

[Transcript] – MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary of State and acting White House National Security Adviser Marco Rubio now joins us. Mr. Secretary, I know it has been an intense few hours, but so far, it does not appear that Iran has yet retaliated against the United States. What intelligence do you have at this point about their capabilities to respond, the intent of their proxies? Is there any kind of command and control structure left to activate them?

SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO: Yeah, well, we’ll see what Iran decides to do. I think they should choose the route of peace. We have been- we’ve done everything. We have bent over backwards, okay, to create a deal with these people. Steve- Steve Witkoff has traveled the world extensively, met with them- well not even met with them, met through the Omanis with them, and discussed back and forth. We even put an offer to them that they wanted elements of it in writing, and we offered it to them- very generous offer by the way. We’ve done- and we’re prepared right now.

If they call right now and say, we want to meet, let’s talk about this. We’re prepared to do that. The President’s made that clear from the very beginning. His preference is to deal with is to deal with this issue diplomatically, but he also told them we had 60 days to make progress or something else was going to happen. And I think they thought they were dealing with a different kind of leader, like the kinds of leaders they’ve been playing games with for the last 30 or 40 years. And they found out that’s not the case.

So this mission was a very precise mission. It had three objectives, three nuclear sites. It was not attack on Iran. It was not an attack on the Iranian people. This wasn’t a regime change move. This was designed to degrade and, or destroy three nuclear sites related to their nuclear weaponization ambitions, and that was delivered on yesterday. What happens next will now depend on what Iran chooses to do next. If they choose the path of diplomacy, we’re ready. We can do a deal that’s good for them, the Iranian people and good for the world. If they choose another route, then there will be consequences for that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me follow up on a phrase you just word, ‘weaponization ambitions.’ Are you saying there, that the United States did not see intelligence that the Supreme Leader had ordered weaponization?

SEC. RUBIO: That’s irrelevant. I see that question being asked in the media all the- that’s an irrelevant question, they have everything they need to build the weapon–

[CROSSTALK BEGINS]

MARGARET BRENNAN: –That is the key point in U.S. intelligence assessments. You know that.

SEC. RUBIO: No its not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes it was–

SEC. RUBIO: No its not–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –The political decision had not been made.

SEC. RUBIO: –No, no. Well, I know that better than you know that, and I know that that’s not the case. You not- you don’t know what you’re talking about–

MARGARET BRENNAN: But I’m asking you whether the order was given.

[CROSSTALK ENDS]

SEC. RUBIO: And the people who say that- it doesn’t matter the order was given. They have everything they need to build nuclear weapons. Why would you bury- why would you bury things in a mountain, 300 feet under the ground? Why would you bury six- why do they have 60% enriched uranium? You don’t need 60% enriched uranium. The only countries in the world that have uranium at 60% are countries that have nuclear weapons, because it can quickly make it 90. They have all the elements they have. Why are they- why do they have a space program? Is Iran going to go to the moon? No, they’re trying to build an ICBM so they can one day put a warhead on it–

MARGARET BRENNAN: No, but that’s a question- that’s a question- that’s a question of intent. And you know, in the intelligence assessment that it was that Iran wanted to be a threshold state and use it as leverage–

SEC. RUBIO: How do you know what the intelligence assessment says? How do you know what the intelligence assessment says–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –I’m talking about the public March assessment. And that’s why I was asking you, if you know something more from March if an order was given–

SEC. RUBIO: –Well, but that’s also an inaccurate representation of it- that’s an inaccurate representation of it. That’s not how intelligence is read. That’s now how intelligence is used. Here’s what the whole world knows. Forget about intelligence. What the IAEA knows they are enriching uranium well beyond anything you need for a- for a for a civil nuclear program. So why would you enrich uranium at 60%, if you don’t intend to one day use it to take it to 90 and build a weapon? Why are you why are you developing ICBMs? Why do you have 8000 short range missiles and two to 3000 long- mid range missiles that you continue to develop? Why do you do all these things–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.

SEC. RUBIO: They have everything they need for a nuclear weapon. They have the delivery mechanisms, they have the enrichment capability, they have the highly enriched uranium that is stored.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

SEC. RUBIO: That’s all we need to see.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Well, and that’s–

SEC. RUBIO: Especially in the hands of the regime that’s already involved in terrorism and proxies and all kinds of things are on- they are the source of all the instability in the Middle East–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –And no one’s disputing- no one’s disputing that. I’m not doing that here. And they were censured at the IAEA for that enrichment and for violating their non-proliferation agreements. I was simply asking if we had intelligence that there was an order to weaponize because you said ‘weaponization ambitions,’ which implies they weren’t doing it–

SEC. RUBIO: –Well, we have intelligence that they have everything they need to build a nuclear weapon, and that’s more than enough.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Can- I want to ask you on the policy front, there are personnel throughout the Middle East, from the United States in Bahrain and Kuwait and other bases. If those countries are attacked by Iran because of their association with the United States, will the United States defend them?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, that’s exactly why they’re there. That’s a great point, actually. Do you know why we have bases in Bahrain and Qatar and UAE and in all these places? All those bases are there because those countries are afraid that Iran will attack them. If Iran was not a threat to the region, if the Iranian regime- because I’m not talking about the Iranian people, the regime was not a threat to the region, we wouldn’t have to have any of these bases. Those bases are there because those countries are petrified that these- that the Iranian Shia clerics that run that country will attack their country–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Will the United States defend them if they are–

SEC. RUBIO: As you know, they’ve got a very difficult history- well, that’s why we’re there. That’s why we’re there.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So yes, we will defend them.

SEC. RUBIO: They’ll attack us, is what they’re threatening to do. So we’ll defend our people, obviously. We’ll defend our people- well, they’ll attack our bases, and those are our bases, and we’re going to defend our personnel. We’re prepared to do that, but we’ll do more than just defend we’ll impose costs on Iran if they attack American personnel, whether they do it directly, or whether they do it through some of these proxies that they try to hide behind, and that includes the Houthis so- another proxy of theirs. So- but let’s hope they don’t choose that route. Let’s all hope that they actually decide, okay, let’s go negotiate. Because we want a diplomatic and peaceful solution. We have achieved our objectives. We’re ready to negotiate this in a peaceful, diplomatic way. We’ve been prepared to do that for days. They are the ones that played games, as they have done for 40 years, as they have done to multiple presidents. They tried to play games with President Trump, and they see what happens. This is not a game-playing president. When he says he’s going to do something, he will do it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I hear you saying here you want to de-escalate. When you are talking about diplomacy, you are looking for Iran to pick up that offer that was put on the table you mentioned by Steve Witkoff. Can you just clarify, does that mean the U.S. would still allow for Iran to have a civilian nuclear program if it does not enrich on its own soil?

SEC. RUBIO: But that- but that’s never been an issue. There’s countries all over the world that have a civil nuclear program, no one here is saying that Iran can’t–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –But that’s still the offer on the table?

SEC. RUBIO: Sure, that’s always been there any kind world has a right to have a civil nuclear program. What they don’t have a right to do is to enrich it at 60%, hide it under a mountain and develop long range and short range and mid range missiles and sponsor terrorist proxies all over the world. They don’t have a right to do that, and that’s what they’ve been doing. And no one’s dealt with it, and it’s continued to linger, and they’ve played games with multiple presidents and multiple countries around the world, and they’ve gotten away with it for 40 something years. This is very simple. The President wants to resolve this diplomatically and peacefully. He gave them a chance to do that. They delayed. They had all these kind of delay tactics. They wouldn’t even meet with us directly. We had to go through third countries. This is very simple. Let’s meet directly. Let’s work on agreements that we can that are good for Iran, good for the Iranian people in particular, good for the safety and security of the world and the United States. That’s always been our preference, that continues to be our preference, but they’re the ones that were playing games with this. And these are the consequences. We had to achieve those objectives. We had three objectives yesterday, Fordo, Natanz and Isfahan. We conducted a brilliant military operation under the command of President Trump, and obviously great credit to Secretary Hegseth and General Kurilla and General Caine and all of our- all the airmen and phenomenal people in the U.S. military. No other military in the world could have done this to achieve those objectives–

MARGARET BRENNAN: No, it was astounding.

SEC. RUBIO: –what happens next is up to the regime. The regime wants peace, we’re ready for peace. They want to do something else, they’re incredibly vulnerable. They can’t even protect their own airspace.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, clearly- clearly, they could not. But what is the U.S. assessment of how much nuclear material at those sites was moved prior to the attack? There has been talk for days about bombing of Fordo.

SEC. RUBIO: Well, look, we- we don’t, no one will know for sure for days, but I doubt they moved it, because you really can’t move anything right now, and they can’t move anything right now inside of Iran. I mean, the minute a truck starts driving somewhere, the Israelis have seen it, and they’ve targeted it and taken it out. So our assessment is, we have to assume that that’s a lot of 60% enriched uranium buried deep under the ground there in Isfahan. And that really is the key. What they should do with that is they should bring it out of the ground and turn it over. Multiple countries around the world will take it and down blend it. That’s what they should do with that. And what they should do is say we’re not going to have any enrichment capability in our country, instead what we’re going to have is a civil nuclear program like dozens of countries around the world have where we build reactors that create electricity and we import enriched material. And we’ve made very general – I’m not going to get all the details of the offers, but there are other avenues here that would be acceptable to them. If that’s what they wanted, if what they want is a civil, peaceful nuclear program, the route has always been there. The problem is that everything they’re demanding has nothing to do with a peaceful program. They are all the things you would want if you want to retain the option of one day weaponizing the program.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.

SEC. RUBIO: Which has been their clear intent. To me, that’s indisputable. I followed this issue for 15 years–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Yeah–

SEC. RUBIO: –Including the intelligence on it for 15 years. Okay? I have followed it. And the intelligence, these are assessments, and sometimes they’ve been wrong, I’ve seen them revised multiple times, these guys want a nuclear weapon one day. They do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Okay, to that point–

SEC. RUBIO: –And it isn’t going to happen, not while Donald Trump is president.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. You’ve said this is not about regime change, but you are describing a regime that you have said for decades, I mean, for upwards of 40 years, has chanted Death to America, has done all the things you just described. Isn’t a diplomatic deal with them a lifeline? Aren’t you offering to negotiate with the same people you’re saying did all these things? So therefore, are you actually looking for regime change?

SEC. RUBIO: But that’s not the point. That misses the point. I don’t like that they chant those things. But one thing is that they chant those things. Another thing is that they chant those things, and they have terror proxies are all over the world, and they have long range missiles that can reach the United States one day and they have the potential to be one step away from a nuclear weapon–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –One day.–

SEC: RUBIO: –Yeah, well one day could be tomorrow, could be a week from now, could be a month from now. You know, all it takes is the flip of a switch. By the way, they’re not going to broadcast that to the world. By the time we figure out that they’re doing it, you have all the pieces in place. Okay?–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –So are there still targets you want to hit?–

SEC. RUBIO: –It’s like a loaded, a gun here, and the ammunition. It only takes one second. We have other targets that we could hit, but we achieved our objective. The primary targets we were interested in are the ones that were struck tonight in devastating fashion. The ones that were struck, I guess, yeah tonight over there their time, and devastating fashion. And we’ve achieved that objective. There are no planned military operations right now against Iran unless, unless they mess around and they attack American or American interests. Then they’re going to have a problem. Then they’re going to have a problem. And I’m not going to broadcast what those problems are, but suffice it to say, know this, the United States flew halfway around the world, right into the heart of Iran, over their most sensitive locations. These things got rocked, and then we left, and we were out of their airspace, we were over the ocean before they figured out what had happened.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.

SEC. RUBIO: And there’s plenty of other targets– We don’t want to do that. That’s not our preference. We want peace deals with them, and that’s up to them to decide.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You said defend American interests. Would the United States military take action to keep, for example, the transit point, the Strait of Hormuz, open? If there are attacks on oil installations, would the United States consider that a direct act by the state, even if it was carried out by a militia?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, I’m not going to take options away from the President. That’s not something we’re talking about right now in terms of being immediate. But if they do that, the first people that should be angry about it are the Chinese government because they take, a lot of their oil comes through there. So they should be the first ones that are saying, if they mine the Straits of Hormuz, the Chinese are going to pay a huge price. And every other country in the world is going to pay a huge price. We will too. It will have some impact on us. It will have a lot more impact on the rest of the world, a lot more impact on the rest of the world. That would be a suicidal move on their part because I think the, the whole world would come against them if they did that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Will the Chinese and Russians stop trading with Iran?

SEC. RUBIO: I have to ask the Chinese and the Russians.–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –You haven’t’ asked them?–

SEC. RUBIO: –Probably not. I mean, they’re getting, you know, they’re, well, the Russians are getting a bunch of these, you know, these drones that they’re using are coming from Iran.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly.–

SEC. RUBIO: –They’re coming from Iran. So I saw the foreign minister, instead of meeting with Steve Witkoff, is headed to Moscow to meet with Putin, which was a pre-scheduled meeting, which is fine, you know they can go meet. And you know the- the Russians at the end of the day, I mean, they buy drones from them. But look, this is very simple. They, we want to have an agreement with them, a diplomatic agreement in which they have a civil nuclear program but are not enriching and don’t have weapons-grade material or weapons grade capabilities laying around. It’s that simple.

MARGARET BRENNAN: –But they’re – understood.–

SEC. RUBIO: That’s our interest here. Who they trade with, who they deal with. Those are other topics. Our objective here is very straightforward. They’re not going to have a nuclear weapon. They’re not even going to get close to a nuclear weapon. They’re not even going to be in the neighborhood of a nuclear weapon because these people are dangerous. This is a radical Shia clerics, who run that country–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Yeah.–

SEC. RUBIO: –And they are the source of all instability in the region, all of it–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –And you’re offering to negotiate with them.–

SEC. RUBIO: –Without this regime, there is no Hamas. There is no Hezbollah. Well because we don’t want them to have a nuclear weapon, but–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Okay, but let me–

SEC. RUBIO: –That’s the core objective. But no, no, but I’m going through the things they’ve done, because that’s why they can’t have a nuclear weapon. Okay? They sponsor Shias–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Yeah, I’m just trying to–

SEC. RUBIO: –I’m sorry they sponsor the Shia militias, Hamas, Hezbollah, all these other terrorist groups. These people aren’t getting, are never going to get anywhere close to a nuclear weapon, not while Donald Trump is president.

MARGARET BRENNAN: For the Americans, for the Americans at home who are going are we at war, you know, I’m trying to suss out some of the facts here. So why would, why would Iran agree to any peace deal if the United States is already pulled out of one that they had, as President Trump did in 2018, and now launched two surprise attacks, both Israel and the United States have done so. There is such a massive trust deficit there. How could you possibly come to–

SEC. RUBIO: Yeah, but the trust deficit started with Iran.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I know.

SEC. RUBIO: Well the trust deficit, the ones that shouldn’t be trusted are the Iranians because they’re the ones that sponsor terrorism. Did they forewarn us before they blew up the embassy in Lebanon and killed over 200 American servicemen? Did they forewarn us before they built IEDs and blew the legs and arms off of American servicemen in Iraq? I mean these are the people that are doing this forever. They’re the ones that no one should trust. They’re the ones that have lied about their nuclear program. They’re the ones that have hidden things from the international organisms.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But that sounds like, but that all sounds like we’re headed towards regime change, where the desire to get these people out of power. Are you–

SEC. RUBIO: No, no, no, now. A serious foreign policy is one that’s focused on identifying what our national interest is. You don’t have to like the regime. There are a lot of regimes around the world that we don’t like. Okay, but in this particular case, what we are focused on is not the changing of the regime. Okay, that’s up to the Iranian people if they want to do that, but that’s not what we’re focused on. Our national interest is about one thing, and that is Iran not getting anywhere near the capability to weaponize and have nuclear weapons. They’re not going to get anywhere near that capability. The President has made that clear from day one. Our preference for solving that problem, that very specific problem, is through diplomacy. We’ve said that. We’ve given it every opportunity. They played games, they tried delay tactics. They’re trying delay tactics now on the Europeans because of the snapback provisions.–

MARGARET BRENNAN: When did the president–

SEC. RUBIO: –And you talked about the JCPOA. That was a crazy deal.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When did the President make this decision? Because he said he was giving two more weeks of diplomacy on Friday, and on Friday, these jets took off.

SEC. RUBIO: Well, the president retains the opportunity to pull out of this at any moment, including 10 minutes before. But the president ordered options. The President- look the decision, in my view, was made when he wrote a letter to the supreme leader and he said over the next 60 days we want to do a deal with you and solve this problem of nuclear weaponization and we want to do it peacefully. If after 60 days, we don’t see progress or it isn’t solved, we have other alternatives. He made that very clear.–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Mr. Secretary–

SEC. RUBIO: I think what some people struggling with here is that we today have a president who does what he says he’s going to do, and that’s what happened here–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Mr. Secretary–

SEC. RUBIO: –And hopefully the Iranian regime got that message.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re going to hit a commercial break, so I have to wrap you there. Thank you very much for your time.

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