Posted originally on CTH on August 17, 2025 | Sundance

Secretary of State Marco Rubio appears on CBS to debate the ever-insufferable Margaret Brennan. The dramatic acting by the newscaster is off-the-charts.  Both the video and the transcript are below.

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[Transcript] – MARGARET BRENNAN: We begin with Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who attended those talks in Anchorage. Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO: Good morning. Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Vladimir Putin did not give President Trump the ceasefire he sought. And now Putin says the root causes of the conflict have to be resolved in a peace agreement. Isn’t the root cause the fact that Russia invaded in the first place?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, ultimately, yeah. But I mean, what he means by root causes is this long historical complaints that we’ve heard repeatedly. This is not a new argument, he’s been making this for a long time, and it’s the argument that it’s Western encroachment. I don’t want to get into- it’s just so long. But the bottom line is that all of- you know, we’re not going to focus on all of that stuff. We’re going to focus on this: are they going to stop fighting or not? And what it’s going to take to stop the fighting. And what it’s going to take to stop the fighting, if we’re being honest and serious here, is both sides are going to have to give, and both sides should expect to get something from this. And that’s a very difficult thing to do. It’s very difficult because Ukraine obviously feels, you know, harmed, and rightfully so, because they were invaded. And the Russian side, because they feel like they got momentum in the battlefield, and frankly, don’t care, don’t seem to care very much about how many Russian soldiers die in this endeavor. They just churn through it. So I think what the President deserves a lot of credit for is the amount of time and energy that his administration is placing on reaching a peace agreement for a war that’s not a war that started under him. It’s half, you know, it’s on the other side of the world. That said, I mean, it’s relevant to us. But there are a lot of other issues he could be focused on. So tomorrow, we’ll be meeting with President Zelenskyy. We’ll be meeting with European leaders. We just met with Putin. He’s dedicated a lot of time and energy because he has made it a priority of his administration to stop or end war- stop wars or prevent them. And right now, this is the biggest war going on in the world. It’s the biggest war in Europe since World War Two. We’re going to continue to do everything we can to reach an agreement that ends the dying and the killing and the suffering that’s going on right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You know this well, how long these kind of diplomatic negotiations often take. President Trump was telling European leaders what was discussed was Putin demanding control of Donetsk, a region in the east that his forces do not fully hold, and the UK estimates that taking that full area could be as long as another four years. Putin also is demanding Russian be an official language in Ukraine, and something regarding Russian Orthodox churches. Did the U.S. accept all of what Putin laid out at that table?

SEC. RUBIO: The United States is not in a position to accept anything or reject anything, because ultimately, it’s up to the Ukrainians. They’re the ones that Russia has to make peace with, Ukraine with Russia–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Well, the President said he did come to some agreement–

SEC. RUBIO: –It’s up to the Ukrainians to make these conditions. Well, the agreements were that we were going to try to do things like, for example, get a leader- a leaders meeting. We have to make enough progress so that we can sit down President Zelenskyy and President Zelenskyy and President Putin in the same place, which is what President Zelenskyy has been asking for, and reach a final agreement that ends this war. Now, there were some concepts and ideas discussed that we know the Ukrainians could be very supportive of in that meeting. I don’t think it’s- we’re not going to negotiate this in the media. I understand that everybody wants to know what happened. But ultimately, there are things that were discussed as part of this meeting that are potentials for breakthroughs, that are potentials for progress. We’ll be discussing that more in depth tomorrow, with our European allies, with the Ukrainians that are coming over. We’ll be discussing all of these things, because ultimately, we do need to find areas where we’re making progress and try to begin to narrow the gap between the two sides. But there’s a reason why this war has been going on for three and a half years, and that is, when it comes to the big issues here, there are still some big differences between both sides. Let’s see how much progress we can continue to make. It’s- it’s- it’s not been easy, but it’s something the President’s made a priority. Peace. And he deserves a lot of credit for that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But ultimately, if- if Vladimir Putin is going to be offered land that he has not seized yet, but negotiates his way into, doesn’t this set a dangerous precedent that the United States now accepts this concept that it is okay to seize land by force?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, Putin has already seized land by force, and that, in and of itself, is not a positive precedent. This whole war is a negative precedent–

MARGARET BRENNAN: — Are you demanding withdrawal?–

SEC. RUBIO: –precedent. Well, again, here’s the- in order to have a deal here to end- to reach the end of this conflict, both sides are going to have to make concessions. That’s just the facts–

[CROSSTALK]

MARGARET BRENNAN: But does that mean accepting–

SEC. RUBIO: –in any negotiation–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –where Russian forces are now?

SEC. RUBIO: No, no, but, if- But this is not about acceptance. This is about what Ukraine can accept. And what Russia can accept. They both have to accept it, otherwise there won’t be a peace deal. Okay. If there aren’t concessions, if one side gets everything they want, that’s called surrender. That’s called the end of the war through surrender. And that’s not what we’re close to doing, because neither side here is on the verge of surrender or anything close to it. So in order for there to be a peace deal, this is just a fact, we may not like it, it may not be pleasant, it may be distasteful, but in order for there to be an end of the war, there are things Russia wants that it cannot get, and there are things Ukraine wants that it’s not going to get. Both sides are going to have to give up something in order to get to the table, in order to make this happen. That’s- that’s just the way it is. And I mean, the sooner we accept that, that’s the reality. Now, what those things are is going to be up to both sides. There’s no conditions that can be imposed on Ukraine. They’re going to have to accept things, but they’re going to have to get things too. And so, for example, Ukraine is a sovereign country. They have a right, like every sovereign country does in the world, to have- to enter into security alliances with other countries to prevent an invasion in the future, to prevent threats to their national security. That’s not an unreasonable request. That’s something needs to be worked on. Territories will have to be discussed. It’s just a fact, and there are things that maybe Russia is holding now that they’re going to have to give up. Who knows? The point is, we need to create a scenario where that becomes possible, and that’s why this has been so hard, because neither side, up to now, has been willing to give on some of these things. But we’ll see if that’s possible. It may not be, but we’re going to try, and we’re going to do everything we can to try to achieve a peace.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand you, you can’t get into specifics in a public conversation, but we’re looking at Russian troops and strikes intensifying. Did you hear anything from Vladimir Putin that indicated he is willing to make a single concession?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, I think there are a couple. I mean, there were- not enough for Ukraine, if not we would be announcing a peace deal this morning, right? But- but certainly, there are some things we notice changes. There are some changes that I think are possible. I think there’s some concepts that were discussed that could potentially lead to something. But again, all these things have to be verifiable. We- it isn’t real until it’s real. I mean, you- one thing is what you say you might be willing to consider, another thing is your willingness to do it. And it always becomes a trade off in all of this. But you talk about the intensifying strikes on the Russian side, yeah, I mean, they’re a full-time war machine. I mean, that’s what’s happening. The Russian economy has basically been turned into a full-time wartime economy. They have a lot of people. It’s a big country. It’s not just large geographically. It has huge populations. It continues to churn through people. You know, they lost- 20,000 Russian soldiers were killed last month, in July, in this war. That just tells you the price they’re willing to pay. Not saying any of this is admirable, I’m saying that this is the reality of the war that we’re facing. It’s become attrition, in some ways. It’s a meat grinder, and they just have more meat to grind.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, let me ask you about the security bit you just mentioned there, because Italy’s Prime Minister says that President Trump revived the idea of security guarantees inspired by NATO’s Article Five and a collective security clause that would involve the United States. How does that work? Are these U.S. troops? Are these U.S. monitors?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, what we’re going to be working on. That’s why- that’s one of the reasons why, you know, I talked yesterday to all the national security advisors, a bunch of them from the different European countries, or European leaders coming here tomorrow, heads of state coming tomorrow, along with President Zelenskyy, to discuss this in more detail. I mean, the constructs of something like this needs to be built out once it- concept is one thing. The reality, you know, how it’s built and how it would work, is another. But those are the kinds of talks that we’re going to be having with them, along with some of the other issues that are at play. But, that-that is one of the-if you were to break this thing down, I mean, there are, obviously, there needs to be an agreement on territories and where the lines are going to be drawn. That’s not going to be very easy. That’s going to be tough. I think there has to be some discussion about security guarantees for Ukraine, because they don’t want this war to–none of us want to see this war in the future. They’re a sovereign country. They have a right to have security agreements with other countries and security alliances with other countries. And then there’s the whole issue of reconstruction–

MARGARET BRENNAN: — Including the United States?–

SEC. RUBIO: — How do you rebuild the country? Well, potentially, like I said, that’s what we’re going to be having a conversation about, and that’s what we’re going to be meeting. That’s why they’re all coming here tomorrow, and-and that’s why we’ve been talking on the phone for the last 48 hours with them, and even leading up to it throughout the week there were various meetings just to sort of build out some of these ideas. So all of these right now are ideas, they are concepts that require some more specificity. We’ll need to work with our partners to see what that looks like. And I think that’s an area where potential progress is real, but that alone won’t be enough. There’s a bunch of other things that have to be worked through here.

MARGARET BRENNAN Yea, well, Russia claims it has rescued 700,000 children. I know you know that the warrant out for Vladimir Putin’s arrest is for the state-sponsored abduction of kids. I’ve seen estimates there are something like 30,000 Ukrainian children who have been abducted. Is the United States demanding, or at least, even just as a statement of goodwill here, that Russia return these children?

SEC. RUBIO: Yeah, I mean, we’ve repeatedly raised that issue on- in every forum possible, and those have also been, by the way, topics of discussion, not just in our meetings with the Ukrainians, but in the negotiations and talks that were going on between Ukraine and Russia at the technical level. These talks were going on in Turkey, as an example. Turkey over the last few months–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Yeah, nothing so far from the Russians —

SEC. RUBIO: –that’s been a topic of discussion as well —

SEC. RUBIO: Well, it’s unfortunate. Children should be returned to their families. We- on that position, I don’t think there’s any ambiguity on our side. And they shouldn’t even be, you know, a bargaining chip in regards to a broader negotiation. But it’s just one more element of how tragic this war is. After three and a half years, this war is getting worse. It’s not getting better. You’ve made the point about the uptick in strikes. This is a war. It’s going to get worse. It’s not going to get better, and that’s why the President is investing so much time in bringing this to an end. And, by the way, everyone is begging us to be involved in this. The Europeans want us involved. The Ukrainians want us involved. Obviously, the Russians want us involved because the President is the only leader in the world- if this is possible, he’s the only one that can help make it happen.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he’s got the leverage over Vladimir Putin if he wanted to crush his economy or at least do more damage to it, but you have held off on those secondary sanctions. President Trump told Fox News his advice to President Zelenskyy is make a deal, Russia’s a very big power and they’re not. You know there is concern from the Europeans that President Zelenskyy is going to be bullied into signing something away. That’s why you have these European leaders coming as back up tomorrow. Can you reassure them?

SEC. RUBIO: No, it isn’t. That’s not why they’re coming as back- that’s not true. No but that’s not, why, that’s not true. They’re not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelenskyy from being bullied. They’re not coming- in fact —

[CROSSTALK]

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well that February Oval Office meeting in front of television cameras, where President Zelenskyy was dressed down —

SEC. RUBIO: — Do you know how many meetings we’ve had since then?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Oh, no, I know. And I was just up in Alaska —

SEC. RUBIO: Yeah, but we’ve had a bunch of meetings since then.

MARGARET BRENNAN: — watching the one with Vladimir Putin where a red carpet was rolled out for the Russian leader. It was very different–

SEC. RUBIO: — No, but it wasn’t Zelenskyy. We’ve had more meetings, we’ve had, we’ve had, we’ve had one meeting with Putin and like a dozen meetings with Zelenskyy. So that, but that’s not true. They’re not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelenskyy from being bullied. They’re coming here tomorrow because we’ve been working with the Europeans. We talked to them last week. There were meetings in the UK over the following, the previous weekend —

MARGARET BRENNAN: — And they said the President Trump was going to demand a ceasefire —

SEC. RUBIO: — The President’s talked to these leaders as early as Thursday. No, no, but you said that they’re coming here tomorrow to keep Zelenskyy from being bullied. They’re not coming here tomorrow- this is such a stupid media narrative that they’re coming here tomorrow because the- Trump is going to bully Zelenskyy into a bad deal. We’ve been working with these people for weeks, for weeks on this stuff. They’re coming here tomorrow because they chose to come here tomorrow. We invited them to come. We invited them to come. The President invited them to come.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But the President told those European leaders last week that he wanted a cease fire. The President went on television, said he would walk out of the meeting if Vladimir Putin didn’t agree with him. He said there would be severe consequences if he didn’t agree to one. He said he’d walk out in two minutes. He spent three hours talking to Vladimir Putin, and he did not get one,so–

SEC. RUBIO: –Because obviously something, things happen during that meeting, well, because obviously things,look our goal here is not to stage some production for the world to say, oh how dramatic he walked out. Our goal here is to have a peace agreement to end this war. Okay? And obviously we felt, and I agreed, that there was enough progress, not a lot of progress, but enough progress made in those talks to allow us to move to the next phase. If not, we wouldn’t be having Zelenskyy flying all the way over here. We wouldn’t be having all the Europeans coming all the way over here. Now understand, and take with a grain of salt, I’m not saying we’re on the verge of a peace deal, but I am saying that we saw movement, enough movement to justify a follow up meeting with Zelenskyy and the Europeans, enough movement for us to dedicate even more time to this. You talk about the sanctions. Look, at the end of the day, if peace is not going to be possible here, and this is just going to continue on as a war, people will continue to die by the thousands, the President has that option to then come in and impose new sanctions. But if he did this now, the moment the President puts those additional sanctions, that’s the end of the talks. You’ve basically locked in at least another year to year and a half of war and death and destruction. We may unfortunately wind up there, but we don’t want to wind up there. We want to wind up with a peace deal that ends this war so Ukraine can go on with the rest of their lives and rebuild their country and be assured that this is never going to happen again. That’s the goal here. We’re going to do everything possible to make that happen if it’s doable. It will require both sides to make concessions. It will require both sides to get things they’re asking for. That’s how these deals are made, whether we like it or not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Before I let you go, quickly, why did the State Department just announced that they’re halting visitor visas for all Gazans coming here for medical aid? Why would some of these kids, for example, who are coming to hospitals for treatment be a threat?

SEC. RUBIO: Well, first of all, it’s not just kids, it’s a bunch of adults that are accompanying them. Second, we had outreach from multiple congressional offices asking questions about it, and so we’re going to reevaluate how those visas are being granted, not just to the children, but how those visas are being granted to the people who are accompanying them. And by the way, to some of the organizations that are facilitating it. There is evidence, it’s been presented to us by numerous congressional offices, that some of the organizations bragging about and involved in acquiring these visas have strong links to terrorist groups like Hamas. And so we are not going to be in partnership with groups that are friendly with Hamas. So we need to- we’re going to pause those visas. There was just a small number of them issued to children, but they come with adults accompanying them, obviously, and we are going to pause this program and reevaluate how those visas are being vetted and what relationship, if any, has there been by these organizations to the- to the process of acquiring those visas. We’re not going to be in partnership with groups that have links or sympathies towards Hamas.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. We have to leave it there for this morning. Thank you for joining us.

SEC. RUBIO: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: ‘Face the Nation’ will be back in one minute. Stay with us.