Big Day For The Swamp – Gang of Eight, Plus Gowdy and Kelly, Meet With DOJ, FBI and DNI To Debate Transparency…

A historic set of meetings within the deepest parts of the DC Swamp is on the schedule for this afternoon with a rather unusual set of alliances, conflicts and competing interests amid both parties and all three branches of government.

After much debate, scheduling, positioning, narrative selling, re-scheduling and changes in attendees, the legislative branch and executive branch are set hold a meeting to discuss oversight, document production and investigative authority over prior intelligence and justice department abuses.  It’s a very odd day indeed.

2017/2018 Intelligence Oversight “Gang of Eight”

♦At high-noon House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R), and House Oversight Committee Chairman Trey Gowdy (R), are meeting with Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, FBI Director Christopher Wray, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and White House Chief of Staff John Kelly. (link) and (link)

In this first meeting the legislative branch will be asking the executive branch, yet again, for unredacted documents relating to their oversight over the Intelligence Community and Department of Justice.  The concerns are prior IC, DOJ and FBI conduct in spy operations against the former campaign of current President Donald Trump. ie. “SpyGate”.

The Chief Executive of the Executive Branch, President Donald J Trump, supports full transparency and his interests are represented by Chief-of-Staff John Kelly.  However, the representative cabinet officer of the executive branch, Attorney General Jeff Sessions, is not permitted to attend; and the subordinate cabinet officers DAG Rosenstein and FBI Director Wray, seemingly are reluctant to support current transparency requests.

This apparent non-compliant split within the executive branch is unusual to say the least and unfortunately the primary reconciliation officer, Jeff Sessions is recused.  Making the issue(s) more complex is current President being the likely victim of an abuse of power by the former cabinet officers of the prior President Obama administration.

To defend the interests of the prior cabinet and prior administration, the co-dependent facilitators of SpyGate, the 2016 Gang-of-Eight (sans Senator Feinstein, replaced by Senator Warner), come from both the Republican and Democrat side of the legislative branch. Thus…

♦At 2:00pm, an additional group of legislative branch oversight members, seven additional  members of the Intelligence Oversight “Gang of Eight”, will join Devin Nunes for a second meeting/briefing to discuss similar issues.

House Speaker Paul Ryan; House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi; Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell; Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer; House Intelligence Committee Ranking Member, Adam Schiff; Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr; and Vice-Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner will join House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes.  This represents the Gang-of-Eight.

[It is presumed at this point Oversight Chairman Trey Gowdy will exit the venue.]

♦ At the 2:00pm meeting seven well known Deep State members of the Gang of Eight, both Democrats and Republicans, will align with the subordinate cabinet officers DAG Rod Rosenstein and FBI Director Chris Wray, against the sunlight and oversight demands of Devin Nunes, John Kelly and presumably Director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats.

2017/2018 Intelligence Oversight Gang of Eight

Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Adam Schiff, Mark Warner are democrats.  They will be supported in the briefing by Richard Burr, Mitch McConnell and possibly Paul Ryan, all republicans.  [Although Ryan has expressed ambivalence on his alignment]

Five of these seven Go8 members (Pelosi, Schiff, Burr, McConnell and Ryan) were co-facilitators for the 2016 operation “SpyGate” along with Senator Dianne Feinstein, and Senator Harry Reid.  Feinstein abdicated her Vice-Chair position and was replaced by by Mark Warner.  Harry Reid retired and was replaced by Chuck Schumer.

2016 “SpyGate” was a multi-department intelligence plan involving former CIA Director John Brennan, former FBI Director James Comey, former Attorney General Loretta Lynch and an unknown number of Obama administration members.

According to Brennan’s former congressional testimony he briefed each of the 2016 Gang of Eight members on the origination of the intelligence information, and the beginning of the counterintelligence operation against candidate Donald Trump and his campaign.  However, curiously John Brennan stated he briefed each of the members “individually”.

John Brennan structured his self-defense with great specificity: (@13:35)


“Again, in consultation with the White House, I PERSONALLY briefed the full details of our understanding of Russian attempts to interfere in the election to congressional leadership; specifically: Senators Harry Reid, Mitch McConnell, Dianne Feinstein and Richard Burr; and to representatives Paul Ryan, Nancy Pelosi, Devin Nunes and Adam Schiff between 11th August and 6th September [2016], I provided the same briefing to each of the gang of eight members.”

“Given the highly sensitive nature of what was an active counter-intelligence case [that means the FBI], involving an ongoing Russian effort, to interfere in our presidential election, the full details of what we knew at the time were shared only with those members of congress; each of whom was accompanied by one senior staff member.”… (link)

As a consequence of their oversight responsibility, if gross misconduct of unlawful activity is evidenced within the presented documentation from the tightly held vault of the FBI and DOJ, all members of the 2016 intelligence oversight are at risk; presumably excluding Devin Nunes.

Thus those remaining members of the 2016 Go8 have a motive to keep all evidence of prior activity sealed from current congressional oversight and inquiry.  That’s why they will likely align with the interests of the subordinate cabinet members who also have an institutional interest in keeping DOJ and FBI secrets from exposure; against the requests of Chief Executive President Trump.

At the 2:00pm larger briefing Devin Nunes will likely only find White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and DNI Dan Coats as open allies. Predictably House Speaker Paul Ryan will hide behind the potted plant until the smoke clears; while Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, Warner, McConnell and Burr attack Nunes for requesting oversight.


If historic patterns repeat, at approximately 2:30pm Adam Schiff will excuse himself to use the restroom and place a guarded phone call to congressional correspondent Manu Raju of CNN, whereby he will leak briefing details for the lead story at the 3:00pm hour.

Awaiting Schiff’s return signal, Pelosi and Schumer will run a distraction campaign discussing tea biscuits and gun control efforts, while Mark Warner uses his blackberry under the table to text message the Russian couriers waiting outside.

Mitch McConnell will find his way to the plant in the corner and begin mumbling something to Paul Ryan who will ask the Senate Majority leader if he remember to bring a mirror.  Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr will pause from glaring at the unfamiliar Ukrainian female staffers, strategically selected for attendance by Mark Warner, and begin guilty engagement with DNI Dan Coats and John Kelly while the room awaits Shiff’s return.

At approximately 3:30 to 4:00pm the group will begin to exit FBI Headquarters and after reaching the third concrete step the first very detailed question from the awaiting media will be shouted at Chairman Devin Nunes asking why he has already leaked the classified content of the briefing.   Prior to answering Chairman Nunes will catch Pelosi and Schumer slyly smiling back as they enter their escorted vehicles.

Ranking member Adam Schiff will be positioned slightly behind Nunes waiting for the bombardment of seeded rapid-fire questioning of Nunes to cease;  at which time Schiff will step forward and the media will listen intently in hushed compliance for fifteen minutes as Schiff explains how today’s critically important briefing has laid the groundwork for future impeachment proceedings.

Toward the end of his rehearsed remarks Adam Schiff will note the likelihood that that several dozen FBI intelligence assets and their families are now at risk; adding a possibility that right now FBI intelligence sources are being assassinated in grocery stores as a result of the grossly irresponsible requests by Chairman Nunes for the most sensitive national security secrets.

At 4:00pm Jake Tapper will carry the choreographed Schiff exit remarks live; with James Clapper and Carl Bernstein pre-positioned in the CNN studio, complete with the leaked narrative provided by Jim Scuitto and congressional correspondent Manu Raju.

Soon thereafter Wolf Blitzer will come in for the structured assist with a ‘Breaking News’ live-feed from Senator Mark Warner who just arrived back on Capitol Hill.

….And so it goes.

A historic day in the swamp.


Tucker Carlson and Joe diGenova Discuss “Spygate” – FBI Political Spy Operations…

Tucker Carlson led off his broadcast on Tuesday night with a discussion of the latest developments in “Spygate”.   An illegal operation by intelligence leadership within President Obama’s cabinet.

FBI Director James Comey, DOJ Attorney General Loretta Lynch, DNI James Clapper and CIA Director John Brennan are all identified within the Spygate operation conducting and facilitating surveillance against their political opposition.

Part I – The FISA Court Grants The Authority, Not The Ability…

There is a meeting scheduled tomorrow between key congressional oversight committee heads (Nunes, Gowdy etc.) and leadership of the FBI (Director Wray), DOJ (Edward O’Callaghan) and ODNI (Dan Coats).  The meeting was set up by White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, and the purpose of the meeting is to come to some agreement on access to documents being withheld by the DOJ, DOJ-NSD and FBI.

However, amid the ongoing debate over spies and informants used by the CIA and FBI to conduct political surveillance, there’s an aspect of the ongoing investigation that seems to be entirely overlooked.

On January 7th, 2016 the Inspector General of the National Security Agency, George Ellard, submitted a mandatory compliance report outlining the status of the NSA’s ability to monitor the access of users within the NSA database.

I’m including the full report below in pdf format because it is important to understand what the NSA inspector general said.  I strongly urge you to read it (despite the redactions) because the larger issues remain visible within the report:


For those who don’t read it, a quick summary would be: We don’t actually have control over how this massive amount of meta-data is being used, searched, queried, and how the information within it is being filtered, minimized or extracted.

The NSA is essentially admitting to being overwhelmed with the scale of the data being collected, and they are similarly overwhelmed by the number of people who have access to this data. Of course the NSA Inspector General uses use much more techno-terminology like:

“Agency controls for monitoring query compliance have not been completely developed.”

…And: “The Agency has no process to reliably identify queries performed using selectors associated with 704 and 705(b) targets.”

…And more alarmingly: “We identified another [redacted] queries that were performed outside the targeting authorization periods in E.O. 12333 data, which is prohibited by the E.O. 12333 minimization procedures. We also identified queries performed using USP selectors in FAA §702 upstream data, which is prohibited by the FAA §702 minimization procedures.”

In short: There’s a ton of activity that we know is taking place that is not supposed to be happening; and we really don’t know the full scale of the abuse we know to be happening -but can’t get our arms around- because, well, there’s just so damn much of it.

This is a critical part of the Obama-term spying and surveillance issue that is being missed by current media reporting.

Given the highly political nature of the intelligence activity we are seeing lately, who do you think would be exploiting those system-wide database vulnerabilities, and why?

Yep, likely those carrying the most entrenched political agenda and ideology. Vested interests both inside the government (career deep state agency staff writ large), and outside government (all those pesky contractors we keep hearing about).

The FBI and NSA database is essentially a vault of unlimited information; the mother-lode of metadata and electronic record-keeping of everything.  Essentially, the holy grail for political operatives who would like to exploit and leverage the information.

Do you want to conduct opposition research?  Those databases would contain such exhaustive amounts of information you could assign a dozen users per target and still not scratch the surface of what is available.  Bank records, purchases, social media accounts, phone records, GPS locations, travel patterns, vehicle locations, home/work ip addresses, emails, audio-activation, pictures, CCTV captures, the works.

Through electronic surveillance you could spy and surveil anyone; in almost real time if focused, motivated and intended. What stands between this massive surveillance system being used/abused for those political purposes or not?



Unless you want to define self-restraint and the morality of the person who has access as an impediment.  Extractions or leaks are only unlawful if you are on the wrong ideological side of those who control the political reigns of power…. Just ask James Comey.  If you didn’t intend to break the law, you didn’t.

Do you think such a network could/would be exploited or weaponized for political purposes?   Well, did you think the IRS would be weaponized in 2010?  Think about it…

Now, consider yourself a person motivated by nefarious political intent.  Or perhaps like Lisa Page and Peter Strzok you are motivated by a higher calling to protect our country from outcomes of an election you don’t agree with.  Perhaps you are authorized by willful blindness of those who are suppose to be the gatekeepers. Now, what does going to the FISA Court gain you, that you don’t already have?

Going to the FISA Court gains you “authority“; it doesn’t gain you access.  You already have the access.

There’s a saying: “It’s easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission.”

As you think of that phrase, consider the April 2017 declassified FISA Court ruling we often reference, along with the admissions made to the FISA court by the DOJ, FBI and NSA in October of 2016.  Approximately 85% of all FISA-702(17) “about” queries were unlawful violations.

What was the DOJ, FBI and NSA asking the FISA Court for: ‘forgiveness’, or ‘permission‘?

I don’t want to overwhelm any single discussion article with too much cited information.  It can become overwhelming to try and keep track of it all.  However, I would strongly suggest that based on the intelligence communities own admissions, throughout 2015 and the beginning of 2016 – all of the non-preferred presidential candidates were under electronic surveillance by people in and outside of government who had access to this holy grail of opposition research.

It wasn’t until NSA Director Mike Rogers shut down contractor access to the system in April 2016 that political exploitation of the FBI and NSA databases was impeded.  Not stopped entirely, simply impeded.

(FISA 99-page Opinion – Rosemary Collyer Presiding Judge)

Remember this name: John P Carlin.  It’s going to become much more important as the days and weeks progress.  He plays a key role in part of the activity in 2016 and connects the story of Carter Page to the FBI and CIA surveillance operation. {Preview Here}

On September 26th, 2016, the head of the Department of Justice National Security Division, John P Carlin (pictured above) filed the required certification letter (full pdf below) with the FISA court for the year 2016.

Mr. Carlin DID NOT include the Inspector General report from January 2016; and Carlin did not notify the FISA court of the compliance audit requested by NSA Director Mike Rogers as an outcome of that IG report (March 2016).


The next day, September 27th, 2016, John Carlin announced his resignation.

From an excellent MarketWatch Timeline:

♦On October 4, 2016, a standard follow-up hearing on the 2016 Section 702 Certification was held (Page 19). Carlin was present at the hearing. Again, Carlin made no disclosure of FISA Abuse. This would be noted by the Court later (see below).

♦On October 15, 2016, Carlin formally left the NSD.

♦On October 20 2016, Rogers was briefed by the NSA compliance officer on findings from the 702 NSA compliance audit. The audit had uncovered numerous “About” Query violations (Senate testimony).

♦On October 21, 2016, Rogers shut down all “About Query” activity. He reported his findings to the DOJ (Senate testimony & inferences from Court Ruling).

♦On October 21 2016, the DOJ & FBI sought and received a Title I FISA probable cause order authorizing electronic surveillance on Carter Page from the FISA Court. At this point, the FISA Court was still unaware of the Section 702 violations.

♦On October 24, 2016, Rogers verbally informed the FISA Court of his findings (Page 4 of Court Ruling).

♦On October 26, 2016, Rogers appeared formally before the FISA Court and presented the written findings of his audit (Page 4, 14 & 19 of Court Ruling & Senate testimony).

The outcome of the October 26th formal filing by NSA Director Mike Rogers was the 99-page ruling from presiding FISA Judge Rosemary Collyer:

FISA Court Presiding Judge Rosemary Collyer; Primary Intelligence Oversight Chairman Devin Nunes; Primary Judiciary Oversight Chairman Bob Goodlatte.

I would suggest to everyone following this deeply complex spying and surveillance story, that it was AFTER Mike Rogers initially began blocking use of the databases for unauthorized searches (March 2016), that those political operatives (outside contractors) shifted their spying and surveillance activity.

Following this timeline it was after March 2016 when the use of human assets, CIA and FBI agents, became more of a necessary function within the process.

After March and April of 2016 is where George Papadopoulos, Carter Page, and Stefan Halper become needed by the intelligence apparatus. It was in April 2016 when Fusion-GPS, Nellie Ohr and Chris Steele became more important.

I’ll get to the details of how each of them engage within the larger surveillance operation with greater specificity and citation in Part II.  And I’m pretty sure I can prove this:


Everything Michael Caputo Said in Last 24 Hours Was One Big Misunderstanding….

Former campaign aide Michael Caputo was on Fox News Monday Night and Tuesday afternoon with some rather dramatic claims about being targeted for exploitation by a nefarious intelligence community operative.  Apparently it was all just a big misunderstanding.

Misunderstanding Story – EXPLAINED HERE

Whoopsie daisy.

Surveillance Target Sam Clovis Discusses His Contacts With FBI/CIA Intelligence Agent Stefan Halper…

I’m working on a rather comprehensive outline to put all of the actions within the larger political operation together; things in sequence will make much more sense. However, in the interim, here’s former Trump campaign adviser Sam Clovis discussing his encounters with the CIA controlled intelligence agent Stefan Halper.

[*Note* For the sake of context, intellectual honesty and narrative transparency, it is important to note that Sam Clovis is legally represented by Victoria Toensing, wife of Joe diGenova. The reason for this understanding will become more obvious at a later date.] WATCH:


Note how the thread/relationship connecting Stefan Halper and Carter Page is surfacing with growing clarity.

It has been admitted that Stefan Halper was an asset paid by the U.S. government, contracted by the CIA and FBI, for activity within FBI operation “Crossfire Hurricane”. I would draw more specific attention to how often we are hearing the word “contractor” in relationship to these intelligence operations.

Keep your eyes and ears open for the term “contractor“. The frequency of that term within these stories is not an accidental.

Edward Snowden was an NSA contractor.  Reality Winner was an NSA contractor.  Christopher Steele was an FBI contractor. Daniel Richman was an FBI contractor. Nellie Ohr was a CIA contractor. Stefan Halper was an FBI/CIA Contractor. Glenn Simpson was an FBI/CIA contractor.  Fusion-GPS was an FBI contractor.  Crowdstrike is an FBI contractor. The FBI approached Oleg Deripaska about being a repeat FBI contractor etc. ….Within the larger story, pay close attention to where/when you see the term “contractor“.

The FISA court has become a misnomer in this storyline.  The metadata, the raw material needed for electronic surveillance and spy operations, always exists regardless of engagement with the FISA court.

The extraction, review and analysis of that metadata does not require a FISA court ordered warrant; it only requires a person have “access” to do the search.  Nothing more.  “Access” is the key to electronic surveillance and data-mining, not “authority”.

Remember that.

Access is the key.

Hence, contractor access opens doors.

The ideology of the contractor determines what they do with that access.



Matt Gaetz Discusses Call for Independent Probe of DOJ and FBI Misconduct…

Following on the heels of the House of Representatives filing a resolution today outlining evidence of FBI and DOJ political corruption – and calling for a second special counsel, Representative Matt Gaetz appears on CNN to discuss the granular issues.

In this interview democrat operative Jake Tapper attempts to lay multiple traps for Matt Gaetz to walk into.  However, Matt Gaetz uses a firm understanding of the facts to avoid the narrative efforts of Tapper and deconstructs the nonsense with ninja-level retort.

House of Representatives, 19 Members, Outline Resolution of FBI and DOJ Misconduct – Request Second Special Counsel…

Earlier today nineteen members of the U.S. House of Representatives filed a resolution outlining widespread corruption within the institutions of the FBI and U.S. Department of Justice.  The 12-page resolution (full pdf below) highlights examples of known politicization by the FBI and DOJ and calls for the appointment of a second special counsel.

With the introduction of the resolution the house members including: Reps. Lee Zeldin (R-NY), Mark Meadows (R-NC), Jim Jordan (R-OH), Ron DeSantis (R-FL), and Matt Gaetz (R-FL) held a press availability to detail the specific concerns that lead to their request for a second special counsel. Watch:

Here’s the resolution outlining the reasoning and purpose:

(PDF House Link)


Contemporary Sources

(from the collection of Martin Armstrong)

QUESTION: A friend of mine has one of your original Greatest Bull Market in History books. I noticed that you quote your direct sources from newspapers and magazines rather than other people histories. Did you find the newspaper a better source of truth?


ANSWER: Absolutely. I have collected newspapers from the 1600s to date. They are an invaluable contemporary source of what was being talked about and events at that moment in time. Here is a rare early publication known as The History of Popery, printed in London October 3rd, 1679. This newspaper was an example of the religious issues in Britain that led to the Civil War. This was an anti-Catholic newspaper, which is rather rare for it had a short life before it was suppressed. This one was on Purgatory stating that this is “[t]he belief thereof a Popish Article of Faith.” It goes into the brewing hatred of Catholic in England at that moment in time. You cannot get a sense of real beliefs by reading someone’s interpretation. They tend to pick and choose events or comments to support a predetermined conclusion.

Take the Great Crash which has been the seminal foundation of the history of the causes of the Great Depressions. It is a total piece of socialist propaganda in my opinion. Nowhere in this book do you even find a mention of the Sovereign Debt Crisis. The predetermined conclusion was to be corporate greed and that is why we needed big government. The same is true of the Creature of Jekyll Island and countless other books. When I read Herbert Hoover’s Memoirs, and all the documentation he put in there with the letters between the heads of state, there was NOT a single book written about the Great Depression that was fair, honest and approached the subject with a quest to followed the facts to see where they truly led.

I studied ancient languages. So I learned to read Latin and ancient Greek. This gave me an unusual background when I was interested in economics. Adam Smith’s teacher was Francis Hutcheson (1694–1746) who was a professor of Philosophy at the University of Glasgow. In 1742, Hutcheson published books entitled Short Introduction to Moral Philosophy, Elements of the Law of Nature, and the third one carried the title of The Principle of Oeconomics and Politics. The latter is the book that resurrected “Oikonomikos” of the Athenian Xenophon’s work from its Greek origin during the 4th century BC giving us the word ECONOMICS (oikos” meaning household and the complex root “nem” meaning “to regulate, to administer, to control”).

To my complete shock, Hutcheson translated this into Latin as “Oeconomics” and later into English giving us “Economics” but he also followed the content of Xenophon’s work chapter by chapter. Then the very order of topics discussed in the economic portion of Hutcheson’s System of Moral Philosophy, published in1755, was repeated by Smith in his Glasgow Lectures and again in the Wealth of Nations. So it is interesting to me that the source was really Xenophon, who received no credit.

Over the years, I have bought up newspapers from libraries as they close or get rid of old materials. In the good old days, they would bound the newspaper for each year. Here is the Chicago Daily Tribune for the year 1879. This has allowed by to definitively put together history from the sources of events. The media today has turned to propaganda. So the reliability of the press today on so many things has been lost.

I have learned over the years to go to the contemporary sources and do not rely upon interpretations. The object of life is to learn – not to promote propaganda. I have an extensive collection of newspapers and contemporary accounts from specific events even into ancient times. When I die, I might have enough stuff to really warrant a library compared to pretend presidents pushing their legacy and agenda. I have made a fortune over the years, but I have plowed it back into research since the 1970s.


Wow – Former Trump Campaign Aide Michael Caputo Expands: U.S. Government Agency Attempted To Give Him Hillary Clinton Emails…

Explosive.  Former Trump campaign aide Michael Caputo appeared on Fox News moments ago with stunning statements.  According to Caputo a contractor with a government agency was attempting to pass to him, through an intermediary, Hillary Clinton emails; and the intermediary reached out to Caputo to inform him therein.

In hindsight, Caputo now suggests the “contractor of the government agency” was attempting to set him up -and by extension the Trump campaign- in a sting operation similar to the recently revealed “Crossfire Hurricane” operation conducted by CIA operative Stefan Halper through Carter Page and George Papadopoulos.  WATCH:


This could have massive ramifications.  Apparently the intermediary is willing to go on record explaining the contact from the government agency and the contractor therein.  Additionally, according to Caputo, he has already informed the Mueller investigation of these contacts and apparently the Special Counsel is attempting to hide the evidence.

Speaker Paul Ryan Discusses DOJ and FBI Investigation – U.S. Attorney John Huber, and Serious FISA Abuse…

In a press conference earlier today a reporter asked Speaker of the House Paul Ryan about yesterday’s meeting with President Trump, DOJ and FBI officials and the requests by key congressional oversight committee leadership. [Video at 15:03]

An interesting emphasis appears in Ryan’s reply. Note in the response from Speaker Ryan he refers to the prosecutorial authority of U.S. Attorney John Huber and also the important issues surrounding FISA abuse.  [Prompted, just hit play]


As we have outlined since early 2017, it is the: unlawful FISA(702) search query issues; the prior investigation by NSA Director Mike Rogers; the admissions by the DOJ-NSD and FBI; and the fraudulent FISA court application (Carter Page) which lay at the heart of everything that took place within the spying and surveillance operation.

Everything that happened AFTER April 2017 in the spying and surveillance of the Trump campaign, happened downstream.  All activity, including the counterintelligence operation, the Steele Dossier, the need for Stefan Halper (agent provocateur), the FISA warrant on Carter Page, everything…. all of that action was downstream consequences from Mike Rogers building the FISA dam to shut down contractor use of the NSA and FBI databases.

I’ll explain more later.