Mexican President AMLO Hits Biden Over Likely Arrest of Trump, While Pushing Back Against Dangerous Cartel Narrative

Posted originally on the CTH on March 22, 2023 | Sundance

Let it not be said that Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez-Obrador (AMLO) does not understand what the Biden administration is attempting in the recent criticism and passive aggressive posturing toward Mexico.

Yesterday, AMLO was outlining a specific set of infrastructure initiatives that are ongoing.  Three new oil refineries together with new railroads and highways are under construction as the government continues positioning itself for energy independence. [Video Here]  However, it’s what he said after the energy remarks that’s really stunning.

The energy plan, which runs counter to the expressed demands of Canada and the United States, includes two regional ‘green’ refineries that will have the ability of turning used cooking oil into fuel.  However, the plan also includes new oil refinery capacity that will permit cheap gasoline independent of the need for Mexican oil to be refined in Texas and returned.

All of the refinery projects are on schedule to be completed by the end of this year and into 2024.  In essence, Mexico will have very cheap gasoline and diesel fuel in the near future.  This was previously outlined as a goal by AMLO in July 2022, and is against the interests the Biden administration.  Now those plans are becoming a reality.  Mexico is not joining the North American suicide mission of windmills, solar panels and reliance on unstable green energy.

Ever since the July 2022 Oval Office press conference at the White House, CTH has been saying to keep an eye on Mexico, because these energy plans align more with the BRICS nation agenda than the goals and objectives of the World Economic Forum (western nations).   It is not accidental the U.S. government, including our intelligence agencies and DHS, has been seeding a negative overall impression of Mexico ever since.

During his remarks, and showcasing that AMLO does actually understand how the Biden administration will/is using alternate angles to undermine the Mexican government, AMLO publicly hit back at Joe Biden over the pending arrest of President Trump.  As noted by U.S-Mexican correspondent José Díaz Breseño, “Angry at US criticism of human rights in Mexico, AMLO comes out in defense of Trump, assuring that his arrest would be a move to prevent him from running for President in 2024.”

President Lopez-Obrador also pushed back against the U.S. narrative about dangers in Mexico related to the cartels. “AMLO goes further to say that the Biden Administration has no right to speak about violence in Mexico since it allegedly authorized “sabotaging” the Nord Stream gas pipeline as journalist Seymour Hersh argues.” Breseño notes.

Have you noticed that not a single U.S. media outlet is reporting on this issue?  I have been looking, waiting to see if anyone would pick up on this very important story; yet, it is almost invisible in the United States.  This silence is not a mistake.  The UniParty media do not want these notations taking place.  Indeed, if we stand back and look at the larger geopolitical picture, we can again see that AMLO is a thorn in the side of the larger objectives of the western alliance.

We will keep watching…

Bragg Hit the Brakes – Manhattan Grand Jury Told to Take Day Off, Delaying Any Indictment of President Trump

Posted originally on the CTH on March 22, 2023 | Sundance

The intensely political New York City District Attorney, Alvin Bragg, has told the grand jury in the Trump proceedings not to report today.

This grand jury has been meeting on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, according to Business Insider who was the first to report today’s cancellation.  President Trump responded to the delay via Truth Social:

New York – […] The Manhattan ‘hush-money’ grand jury has been told not to come in on Wednesday, a cancellation that comes on the brink of a possible historic indictment vote of former President Donald Trump, according to two law enforcement officers.

And while nothing beyond Wednesday is set in stone, it is unlikely that the grand jury will meet at all this week, said one of the law enforcement sources, who spoke to Insider on condition of anonymity.

[…] Grand juries convene in secret, and prosecutors are statutorily barred from discussing what they do. The pause comes after unexpected testimony Monday by Robert Costello, who was allowed to address the grand jurors at the defense’s request.  Costello, who previously served as Cohen’s legal advisor, said at a press conference Monday that he attacked his former client’s credibility during his testimony. Cohen had just spent two days of testimony walking grand jurors through the chronology of Trump’s involvement in the payment. (read more

The legal merits of the campaign finance case are farcical on their face, as admitted by the Federal Election Commission (FEC), previously litigated via legal precedent (John Edwards case), and even Supreme Court interpretation (VA Gov Bob McDonnell case).  Even Special Counsel Robert Mueller and Andrew Weissmann didn’t want to touch this approach.

Additionally, even if there was a legal issue, there isn’t, the statute of limitations on the claimed infraction has expired.  Furthermore, and seemingly overlooked by most pundits opining on the issue, the legal issue Bragg is attempting to weaponize is a federal campaign finance issue, out of the jurisdiction of the Manhattan district attorney. So, what gives?

Why would George Soros funded District Attorney Alvin Bragg proceed with a case that was structurally designed to fail on every aspect of the case?  The answer, ‘politics’, pure banana republic politics.

Hillary Clinton was found to have violated campaign finance laws when her campaign used “legal expenses” to pay for the creation of the Christopher Steele dossier; the originating material for the false Trump-Russia conspiracy theory.   Hillary Clinton was fined by the FEC for not accurately identifying the payments to Fusion GPS as campaign expenses; however, she WAS NOT prosecuted by the DOJ for the issue.

Despite the dismissal of the serious issue this case represents, by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, a flippant dismissal that is garnering him a great deal of righteous condemnation, the extreme double standard represented in this case against President Trump is what forms the basis for American citizens to be angered about the dual system of justice.   It’s a big deal….  A very big deal.

White House Neocon Spokesman Admits – They Do Not Want Peace in Ukraine

Armstrong Economics Blog/Ukraine Re-Posted Mar 22, 2023 by Martin Armstrong

I have had two employees from Ukraine – Kiev and Donetsk. The one from Kiev just mouths the standard Ukrainian propaganda. If they give up the Donbas, they will then want all of Ukraine. The UK is deeply involved walking hand and hand with Biden into world war III. They have clearly crossed the Rubicon here and for no justification. Had they simply honored the Minsk Agreement and let the Donbas, which is ethnically Russian, separate from a regime that hates their guts the war would be over in 5 minutes.

Instead, Britain appears to have been planning to give Ukraine nuclear weapons with depleted Uranium. Putin has come out and warned the UK that “the delivery and use of depleted uranium missiles by the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be perceived as an attack against Russia with a weapon that has a ‘nuclear component’.” Putin elaborated:

“Today it became known that the United Kingdom, through the Deputy Head of the Ministry of Defense of the country, announced the supply of not only tanks to Ukraine but also shells with depleted uranium. It seems that the West really decided to fight Russia in the last Ukrainian not with words, but with deeds Russia will be forced to react once the collective West starts using weapons with a nuclear component.”

There are some who believe that Ukraine should just be nuked. Give the people 2 weeks to flee to Poland or Germany, and then nuke the region and make it unlivable. That is basically the legion that Rome certainly razed the city entirely, but there are no contemporary sources stating that the Romans salted the land to prevent the city of Carthage from rising a fourth time. The Greek writer from the 1st century BC, Diodorus Siculus, informs us that the city had been razed and Carthaginians destroyed. Horace informs us that after the city was destroyed, the land was symbolically plowed. Polybius in his “The Histories” makes no mention of the land being salted just that the city was completely destroyed. Appian of Alexandria does record that Carthage was reconstructed by the first Emperor Augustus (27BC-14AD) and to avoid the evil spells that were cast on the ground, Carthage was rebuilt in a different location.

Surely, if Russia nuked Ukraine that would kill the European breadbasket and it would guarantee Ukraine’s neutrality. Is that the only way to terminate this Neocon Proxy Way and save the world?

The three Punic Wars (264 BC–146 BC) between Rome and Carthage were a turning point in the history of the Mediterranean world and, more than any other conflict, the Second Punic War (218 BC–201 BC) appears to have been a defining time in Roman history. We also see the debasement in that coinage of Carthage as they waged war to defeat Rome. You can see the early silver coinage debased as the war unfolded.

As Hannibal marched through Spain and invaded Italy from the North, Rome issued its first gold coinage more as a symbol of wealth to the other Italian city-states that they should standby Rome and not join Hannibal.

On the Roman side, we also see the consequence of the war with the debasement of the silver quadrigatus, which was the Greek denomination of the didrachm they complied with for trade with the Greek world. Here too, we can see the cost of war is not just the lives lost, but also the inflation and the monetary debasement.

Hannibal’s war also forced Rome to establish the denarius, which was the weight reduction from the Greek standard of the Didrachm 6.5 grams to 4.0 grams in 211BC. Even though Rome won,  the lesson here is that sometimes wars result in the complete collapse of a monetary standard and the rebirth of a new currency. This is what we face. The Neocons care nothing about the economics, nor about the lives of the people they send to die for their arrogance. They are the worst of humanity and should be driven from governments on a global scale.

Indeed, King Louis XIV (1643-1715) was on his deathbed when he lamented.

“I have been too fond of war.”

Meanwhile, the arrogance of the Neocons trying to dictate to the world and ordering China not to help Russia, Xi’s trip to Russia had no other outcome but to support Russia as he called Putin a ‘dear friend’ as China now pushes back against U.S. power knowing full well the real agenda here is to weaken Russia and then for NATO to invade on any pretense to destroy Russia once and for all. This is the Neocon’s dream and they could care less about the Ukrainian people. I have warned that the Ukrainian people are there to be slaughtered for the glory of the Neocons.

Fauci’s Door to Door Vaccine Campaign Fails

Armstrong Economics Blog/Corruption Re-Posted Mar 22, 2023 by Martin Armstrong

This video is circulating the internet that shows RESISTANCE IS NOT FUTILE. Dr. Anthony Fauci goes door to door, pressuring residents of Washington, DC, to take an experimental injection for an experimental virus he likely helped leak. Watch how the people destroy Fauci’s misinformation in a few short minutes. One woman explains to Fauci that his shot does not prevent infection or transmission—what’s the point of taking the vaccine at all? “They’re not doing it because they’re saying they don’t want to do it. They’re Republicans and they don’t like being told what to do,” Fauci stated at the beginning of the video as if this issue were political.

The second man in this video really tells Fauci to Fauci off. They’re still pressuring people to take the vaccine under the pretense that it will protect the public, although even the pharmaceutical companies admit the vaccines provide no such protection. When the gentleman in the video expresses his hesitation with valid points, Fauci attempts to present “the science,” which we have learned is ever-changing based on the agenda. “When you start talking about paying people to get vaccinated…when you start incentivizing people to get vaccinated, there is something going on with that,” the skeptical American said. He then told them that the entire pandemic was about FEAR and inciting terror within the population to force them to behave as ordered.

Nature published an article entitled, “Vaccine incentives do not backfire — policymakers take note.” The study claims that cash incentives for vaccinations do not have negative consequences. “Eager to get vaccines into as many arms as possible, [governments] began to offer unusual incentives: in San Luis, Philippines, vaccinated residents could enter a sweepstake to win a cow; in Hong Kong, the windfall was an apartment; in West Virginia, it was a hunting rifle, among other prizes,” the study notes. They truly think the public is clueless and willing to risk their health for a prize. Other local governments offered marijuana, school scholarship sweepstakes, grocery discounts, free rideshares, vacations, tickets to concerts and sporting events, and even an opportunity to win a family reunion.

The study published by Nature determined that the Great Unwashed could be persuaded:

"However, people and policymakers still worry that such incentives could have unintended negative consequences. People might expect payment for future vaccinations, for instance. Or they might think the payments are compensation for something that isn’t safe or could be unpleasant. Now, the results of two trials published in a paper on 11 January in Nature suggest that simple cash payments have no such unintended effects."

Independent thought is the greatest tool we have against the globalists.

Intentional Provocations – Tucker Carlson Outlines the Latest Expectations on the Trump Arrest and 1,000+ Pending Indictments Against J6 Protesters

Posted originally on the CTH on March 22, 2023 | Sundance | 115 Comments

At a certain point you have to wonder if the scale of the “dual justice” visibility is not intended to provoke a political crisis.  If this is the motive, we are heading to a very dark place.

During his opening monologue last night, Tucker Carlson outlines the latest expectations in the arrest of President Trump and the pending criminal indictments of more than a thousand people related to the events of January 6, 2021.  WATCH:


Report, President Trump to Be Indicted in Manhattan Tomorrow, City Coordinating with Secret Service for High Publicity Arrest Next Week

Posted originally on the CTH on March 21, 2023 | Sundance

Not much really needs to be said about this.  After all of the effort and thousands of man-hours put into the political weaponized construct by Soros District Attorney Alvin Bragg, a high publicity handcuffed perp walk into a Manhattan courtroom is the ultimate leftist end goal.

According to The Daily Mail, here’s the details for the next several days:

DAILY MAIL – Donald Trump will likely be indicted on Wednesday but won’t appear before a judge in New York until next week, has learned. ‘There will be no arraignment this week,’ a source familiar with the proceedings told exclusively on Tuesday.

The former president, who is currently in Florida, is expected to be formally charged tomorrow, after which the Manhattan District Attorney’s office will reach out to Trump and his Secret Service detail to make arrangements for his surrender, according to the insider.

He will then fly to New York where he will be arraigned, fingerprinted, and pose for his mug shot.

Meanwhile, it’s all-hands-on-deck for the New York Police Department and Metro Police Department as all officers on Tuesday are expected to be in uniform, ready for anything in the wake of the potential indictment.

Officials in New York City and Washington, D.C., are preparing for possible unrest and demonstrations following the former president’s plea to his supporters to ‘protest, protest, protest’ in response to a potential indictment handed down by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg over hush money payments made to porn star Stormy Daniels.

Trump, 76, said last week that he expected to be arrested on Tuesday, but a law enforcement official told that an indictment would likely happen on Wednesday at the earliest. (read more)


The Decline & Fall of the United States

Armstrong Economics Blog/Corruption re-Posted Mar 20, 2023 by Martin Armstrong

COMMENT: Hi Marty,

Seems to me the Democrats are following the time honored practice South American governments have resorted to in recent years when one party displaces another in a national election. In Brasil, the current president, Lula, spent 3 years in jail for charges of corruption. His successor was later removed from office. Now Bolsonaro has fled the country and is living in South Florida. In Ecuador, a past president, Moreno ,is under indictment and it appears he too will end up being arrested on trumped up corruption charges. In Bolivia, two term ex-president Evo Morales, after trying to run for an unprecedented third term, fled the country in 2019 when it appeared opposition to his run would potentially result in his being jailed. He fled to Argentina, then later got asylum in Mexico. The woman who replaced him was subsequently arrested on trumped up charges of conspiracy. IN Peru, which has gone through more presidents in recent years than most countries have experienced in a half century, has arrested the past 5 presidents. In Chile, the last president who served in office was run out of office for using the military to suppress protests. This was back in 2019.  The revolution that led to the country abandoning their old constitution has put the country in chaos.. The current president is extremely unpopular and one can imagine he won’t last another year in office. In Colombia, the country now is run by a communist/socialist who is now flirting with an ambitious spending program designed to buy time and slow down the opposition building against him. In Argentina, the former president, Christina Fernandez Kirchner, is dodging charges of corruption(and just avoided being assassinated by a lone gunman) after presiding over another series of IMF sponsored funding that has left the country in a perpetual state of default. The socialist in office today, Fernandez, is one of a long line of failed presidents who is destined to be pulled under by the corruption so deeply embedded in this country.

Now the Democrats appear to have imported South America’s tradition of imprisoning opposition leaders.It’s hard to imagine a party as corrupt as that of the Democrats. But nothing happens in a vacuum. With Republican support in Congress during Trump’s term when they opposed him and did everything they could to undermine him, the uni-party now operates without even the slightest effort to disguise their true intentions. An outsider like Trump is anathema to both parties. It reminds me of the PRI in Mexico. which put forth its candidate every year pretending people there actually had a choice, It took AMLO to break this tradition. Only because the drug cartels today are so powerful, the central government is virtually impotent to extend its reach outside of the capital.

We are watching the dying days of this republic. Biden’s “election” has assured that no serious challenger can ever emerge.Locking up your opponent now has become part of their playbook.  This is the tradition of the Sandinistas, the Peronists in Argentina, and now the Biden dictatorship.


REPLY: People do not realize that Zelensky wants to imprison the former president indefinitely pending a rigged trial for corruption. This is the one man who could probably run against Zelensky and beat him with his high heel shoes. Zelinsky is so perverse and a disgrace to Ukraine when in fact it has been clearly established there is NO accountability for any money handed to Zelensky and any American politician who votes for this money for Ukraine should be removed from office for they are probably tainted as well.

It has been established that Zelensky has been stashing money offshore. When the last Ukrainian fall on the battlefield, the US will have him airlifted in style and he will flee to his mansion in Miami after destroying his own country. Zelensky has been caught. Who will prosecute him? Not the Biden Administration which owed him the Midterm elections for being the 2nd largest donor under the money laundering scheme of FTX which will also be swept under the rug to protect the corruption that has consumed governments.

The United States is NO LONGER the beacon of liberty to the world. We have descended to the lowest possible level of absolute duplicity and corruption. People are bearish about the dollar because of the quantity of money? Get real! The collapse in the dollar will not be because of such petty nonsense. it will collapse because these people are destroying the very foundation of confidence and respect the United States once had.

Alvan Bragg & the Destruction of the United States

Armstrong Economics Blog/Corruption Re-Posted Mar 19, 2023 by Martin Armstrong

If Donald Trump is arrested or even indicted by this personally motivated prosecutor in New York City, this is not just un-American for the ruling party to use police power to arrest its political rivals, the United States has fallen so far that there is no coming back. Ukraine routinely impressions political rivals because it is the most corrupt government in the world. The United States is no longer the beacon of liberty to the world – it is showing how corrupt the legal system has become. New York City is not the Big Apple, it is worse than the most corrupt legal system in any banana Republic. NYC has surpassed even Adolf Hitler’s most notorious court which had a 90% conviction rate. The Feds in NYC have exceeded 97%. Those that escape are by mistake or they mysteriously die.

Alvan Bragg, the vindictive Manhattan prosecutor trying to climb the ladder on the dead body of Donald Trump, actually came out and said like some tyrant: “We do not tolerate attempts to intimidate our office or threaten the rule of law in New York.” There is no Rule of Law in New York City. It is a complete joke and a fraud to even utter those words. What is next? Do they indict Trump for parking tickets for all his employees? Or perhaps he starts indicting people who bad-mouth NYC? This is the way these DAs rise to political power. They always look to charge someone famous and then run for political office.

Even Ramaswamy, the tech entrepreneur who recently declared his GOP candidacy, wrote on Twitter Saturday. “If a Republican prosecutor in 2004 had used a campaign finance technicality to arrest then-candidate John Kerry while Bush & Cheney were in power, liberals would have cried foul—and rightly so.” If anyone should have been criminally prosecuted it was Hillary for using a private email server to circumvent the Freedom of Information Act where people could have gotten her official emails and never knew about her private server. That impacted National Security – not hush money to a prostitute.

“This will mark a dark moment in American history and will undermine public trust in our electoral system itself,” Ramaswamy also wrote. “I call on the Manhattan District Attorney to reconsider this action and to put aside partisan politics in service of preserving our Constitutional republic.”

The Democrats have gone way too far. They have divided the United States and there is NOT going to be a return.  These forecasts I have relayed are those of the computer. They have never been my personal opinion. Forecasting war and that it would turn up in 2014 at the 2011 World Economic Conference was by no means possible from a human intuition perspective. In 2013, I was able to relay that the computer had targeted Ukraine as the hot spot for World War III.

The computer has also forecast that the United States would break apart and we would see a major separatist movement. I put that forecast out also in 2011. At no time did I ever expect that we would be the aggressor in this war, thanks to the Neocons, but also I never expected the Democrats to sink to such low a position of integrity that has rejected everything that this nation was constructed on.

All I can say, nobody has EVER beaten Socrates – NOBODY and that includes me. This does not give me pleasure or bragging rights. I had hoped that Socrates would have shown us the way to steer between the rocks immune to the Sirens as Ulysses on this voyage to a new world order, but one I see as freedom – not tyranny.

Unfortunately, we cannot tie Biden or the Neocons who control him to the mast in hopes that they understand that we have basic human rights not to be manipulated as their toy soldiers for their pleasure.

What will be – will be. All I can hope is that Socrates proves itself and perhaps after the crash and burn, someone, will have the courage to listen.

Sunday Talks, Mike Pence Says, “We’re not asserting executive privilege” for Testimony Related to 2020 Election Challenge

Published originally on the CTH on March 19, 2023 | Sundance

Slightly interesting, and in the big picture somewhat expected.  During a lengthy interview with ABC’s primary propagandist, Jonathan Karl, former VP Mike Pence asserts that if he is forced to give testimony to Special Counsel Jack Smith on conversations with President Trump about the 2020 election results, the legal team behind Pence will not assert that private conversation as “executive privilege.”

This approach was expected by the most cynically minded, because it explains why Pence is delaying any presidential race announcement.  If Pence is to be valuable to the special counsel, he must testify before he makes a 2024 announcement, or else his testimony gives the impression of denying “executive privilege” in order to undermine his opponent, Donald Trump – which is, of course, his true motivation. Video [@21:36] and Full Transcript Below:

We all know a Mike Pence person in our lives. A person highly skilled in delivering weaponized superiority and passive aggression.  Mike Pence was always the earworm.

[Transcript] – JONATHAN KARL, “THIS WEEK” CO-ANCHOR: Mr. Vice President, thank you for taking the time to talk to us here in Iowa.

FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Thank you Jon, good to be with you.

KARL: As — as I’m sure you’ve seen, Donald Trump is saying that he’s going to be indicted on Tuesday, he’s calling for people to protest, now we — we don’t know if that’s true, the Manhattan D.A. has not said anything about it, but he’s calling for people to protest. Is that irresponsible?

PENCE: Well first let me say, I’m taken aback at the idea of indicting a former president of the United States, at a time when there’s a crime wave in New York City, that — the fact that the Manhattan D.A. thinks that indicting President Trump is his top priority, I think is, just tells you everything you need to know about the radical left in this country. It’s a — the last five years Democrats have been dismantling tough criminal justice in the city of New York. Families are paying the price and yet this is what we get.

It just feels like a politically charged prosecution here. And I, for my part, I just feel like it’s just not what the American people want to see. We got real challenges in this country today, Jon. People are facing record inflation, a crisis at our border. We have war in Eastern Europe, the American people are anxious about the future and here we go again, back into another politically charged prosecution directed at the former president of the United States, and I would just hope for better.

KARL: But he’s calling on people to protest, to come out and protest, “take our nation back.” We know what happened the last time he said that.

PENCE: Well Jon, the American people have a constitutional right to peaceably assemble — and express their …

KARL: Absolutely, but to have a former president calling on people to protest a — a — a — a justice proceeding.

PENCE: The frustration the American people feel about what they sense is a two-tiered justice system in this country, I think — I think is well founded but — I — and — I believe that people understand that if they give voice to this, if this occurs on Tuesday, that they need to do so peacefully and in a lawful manner. That the violence that occurred on Jan. 6, the violence that occurred in cities throughout this country in the summer of 2020, was a disgrace. The American people won’t tolerate it and those that engage in that kind of violence should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

KARL: But you say he’s a former president possibly about to be indicted and it’s unprecedented. Aren’t his actions unprecedented? I mean we never saw a presidential candidate give $130,000 to a porn star to keep her from — from talking. I mean, these are unprecedented actions.

PENCE: Well Jon, I — as you know, those — those events transpired before I even joined the national ticket and so I can’t — I can’t speak to the merits of the case.

KARL: Well, the payoff happened just two weeks before the election.

PENCE: But I can’t speak to the merits of the case and in America, you’re innocent until proven guilty. That’s not always true in the national media, but it is true in our justice system. And look, I know that President Trump can take care of himself and — and this process will play out, if in fact an indictment comes down. But I just have to tell you that the politicization that we see in the Justice Department, the fact that in New York, the attorney general and other Democrats running for office in criminal justice system, actually ran on a promise to get Donald Trump, I think, is deeply troubling to millions of Americans who want to see the equal treatment before the law.

KARL: Do you think people should be out protesting that? Do you think they should be protesting the courthouse? Do you think —

PENCE: Look, Jon, I think the American people have a right to let their voice be heard. But I am hoping and confident that people that may give voice to their frustration this week and in the days ahead will do so in the best American tradition, and that is peacefully, and use their First Amendment rights in the way that we all respect.

KARL: What do you think of Kevin McCarthy, Speaker McCarthy, coming out and denouncing this and saying that there’s gonna be a congressional investigation into — into all of this. Do you want federal interference into what is done by a Manhattan D.A. or any district attorney?

PENCE: Jon, I gotta tell you, as I travel around the country, people are very concerned about the politicization that we’ve seen at the Justice Department. During the Trump-Pence administration, we saw FBI’s — agents that were falsifying documents to obtain search warrants, we found about politics driving decision at — at the highest level. And again, in NYC I have to — look no one’s above the law, but when you have the attorney general campaign on a promise to get a particular American indicted, and you have other Democrat officials that pledge the same, this is not equal justice before the law. This — this looks like the criminalization of politics and the American people aren’t having it. And frankly —

KARL: But he would have the right to defend himself and to be heard by a jury of his peers, etc., etc. I mean don’t you have faith in that system? Whatever you may think about the prosecution, he’s got a chance to defend himself.

PENCE: I have — I have no doubt that President Trump knows how to take care of himself. And he will. But that doesn’t make it right to have a politically charged prosecution of a former president of the United States of America. I mean, look, we live in a very divided time in this country and for prosecutors to bring a case on — on this matter at a time that we ought to be healing our country. We ought to be finding ways to bring Americans together. We’re facing real challenges in this country. I mean — I mean literally, I was in New Hampshire not long ago and a guy running a restaurant said to me that eggs had gone from a nickel to 30 cents a piece, and he’s struggling to keep people on the payroll at his restaurant. I mean, you got families that are facing high gasoline prices. You got a crisis at our border. It’s not just 5 million people coming into America, but also Jon you’ve got an avalanche of fentanyl that is claiming lives in every big city and small town in this country.

The American people want to see leaders in Washington who will focus on the issues they care about, they’re concerned about and — and to see that what appears to be a politically motivated prosecution, that I know many in the national media will spend all their time talking about, I don’t believe that’s what the American people want our leaders in Washington focused on and — and it’s not what I’m gonna focus on as well.

KARL: I want to ask you about your recent remarks about Donald Trump and — and Jan. 6, you said that history will hold Donald Trump accountable. How?

PENCE: Well, we all face the judgment of history and I believe in the fullness of time that, that history will hold Donald Trump accountable for the events of Jan. 6, as it will other people that were involved.

KARL: In what ways? What will history say about his actions?

PENCE: Well it will be the judgment of history, I truly believe it. And I also think the American people will also have their say. I mean the president is now a candidate for office again, he’s running for election but as I go around the country, I’m, I’m convinced the American people have learned the lessons of that day. They’ve internalized what they have learned over the last two years, including in much of your good work on this topic. They know what happened. They know the fact that the president’s reckless words endangered people at the Capitol that day, including me and my family, and I believe they’ll, they’ll factor all of that in as they make decisions going forward in this country, but — again, I, I honestly can tell you that I just think that the American people want leaders in Washington. They want voices in the national debate that are focused on the issues that are affecting their lives. They’ll make their own judgment about what happened on Jan. 6. They’ll make their own judgment about this administration and its failures at home and abroad. And I think ultimately history, history will hold Donald Trump accountable for that day.

KARL: Trump actually said in response to what you said recently about Jan. 6, that it was your fault. That if you had done what he was asking you to do, throwing out those electoral votes, you wouldn’t have had a Jan. 6 as we know it. That’s what he said. What do you make of that? It was your fault. That you were to blame.

PENCE: Well I know one of the, one of the attorneys that was advising the president said the same thing in a text on January the sixth but his attorneys were wrong and –

KARL: John Eastman.

PENCE: President Trump is wrong. I know by God’s grace, we did our duty that day, to act out the express language of the Constitution of the United States. States control elections. Once states send electoral votes to the Congress, the only role that the Congress has is to open and count — they can consider objections, which Democrats brought in the last three elections that Republicans prevailed. They can consider [objections] but at the end of the day, the job of the Congress is to open and count electoral votes certified by the states — no more, no less. We did our duty that day to ensure the peaceful transfer of power under the Constitution of the United States.

KARL: I mean he says, “In many ways you can blame him for Jan. 6.” I mean you were the one that had to be evacuated. That, that, that was facing calls for people who, who were saying that they wanted to hang you. And he’s saying, “in many ways you can blame him,” blame you for Jan. 6.

PENCE: Well, it’s one of the reasons why despite the fact that the president and I actually parted amicably when we left the White House on Jan. 20 [2021]. And spoke several times in the weeks that followed that. After I saw him return to that type of rhetoric in the spring of 2021, we’ve, we’ve just gone our separate ways. I know we did our duty that day. I know the president continues to have a strong difference of opinion about my responsibilities that day, but I, I, I trust my actions to the judgment of history and the judgment of the American people — I think — the people of this country love our Constitution and, and they want to see elected officials, uphold the Constitution and stand on that foundation and … whatever the future holds for me and my little family we’ll always aspire to do just that.

KARL: I want to play you something … and if you have the video here. I want to play you something Donald Trump said to me when I asked him if he was concerned about your safety on that day. This is a — asked directly about …

(BEGIN AUDIO – MARCH 18, 2021)

KARL: Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?

FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: No, I thought he was well-protected, and I had heard that he was in good shape … No, because, uh, I had heard he was in very good shape. But, but — no, I think —

KARL: Because you heard those chants, that was terrible. I mean, you know, those —

TRUMP: He could have — well, the people were very angry.

KARL: They were saying hang Mike Pence.

TRUMP: Because it’s — it’s commonsense, Jon, it’s commonsense, that you’re supposed to protect. How can you — if you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?


KARL: I mean, he’s effectively justifying or excusing the actions of people who were, who were calling for you to be hanged.

PENCE: There was no excuse for the violence that took place at the Capitol on Jan. 6, and I’ll never diminish it as long as I live. But look I — the president’s wrong. He was wrong that day and … I had actually hoped that he would come around in time, Jon, that he would see that the cadre of legal advisers that he surrounded himself with had led him astray. But he hasn’t done so and it’s, I think it’s one of the reasons why the country just wants a fresh start. Our duty is to the Constitution of the United States. Now there were irregularities in that election — they were reviewed by the courts around the country. States had changed the rules in the election in the name of COVID. And I thought it was—

KARL: But — but you don’t think the election was stolen I mean you, you’ve said that–

PENCE: Look, I think it was worthwhile that the Congress debate the objections and consider the facts and then move forward with the peaceful transfer of power all under the Constitution and, and the laws of this country but … at the end of the day, I’ll let history be the judge, the American people be the judge and I’ll always know we did our duty that day.

KARL: But does saying — justifying those murderous chants — does way he’s talked about it since. Does that effectively disqualify him from being commander in chief again? What do you think about — that you’d have somebody that would again, justify those chants back in a position of authority.

PENCE: I think that’s a judgment for the American people.

KARL: What’s your judgment about it?

PENCE: And I’m confident they’ll make it. Well, look, I will be honest with you. I was angry that day. And while I believe in forgiveness, I’ve been working hard at that for a while. The president let me down that day. He let the country down that day. But thanks to the courage of law enforcement, the riot was quelled. We reconvened the Congress, the very same day and a day of tragedy became a triumph of freedom. And I’ll always be proud of our small part in that, but be honest with you the emotions of that day, the emotion since, I just haven’t had time for it. To me, there’s just too many issues that we’re facing this country today under the failed policies of this administration that I don’t have a lot of time for looking backwards.

KARL: Could you ever–

PENCE: –I’m looking forward and uh focused on whatever role we might play in helping to turn this country around.

KARL: Could you ever support him again for president?

PENCE: I think that’s yet to be seen, Jon. I must tell you that I think we’ll have better choices. We’re going to decide as a family whether we offer ourselves as one of them but I think different times call for different leadership. I think the American people long for leadership at the highest level that’s focused on the issues that are affecting their lives. And also, I think they longed for leadership that will keep faith with our highest traditions, including the foundation of the Constitution of the United States.

KARL: You had said back in September of 2020, that President Trump “he’s a man of his word.” You still believe that—?

MP: I’m very proud of the record of the Trump Pence administration.

KARL: But is he a man of his word?

PENCE: On one issue after another, we kept our word to the American people. Whether it be rebuilding the military, cutting taxes, unleashing American energy, securing the border, appointing conservative judges, putting pro-life judges to the Supreme Court that gave us a new beginning for life. One issue after another, I saw the president keep the word that he made to the American people and I was, I was proud those four years to stand with him. And I know that grates on some people in the national media, Jon. As I wrote in my book, I’m incredibly proud of the record of our administration. It didn’t end well, ended in controversy, but those four years we saw America through that pandemic, we we led our nation to greater prosperity and security in those first three years than anytime in my lifetime. And I’ll always be proud of the record of the Trump Pence administration.

KARL: I’m not asking you about the record. I’m asking you about the man. I mean, you had said another time, “I always tell people to know President Trump is to know someone whose word is his bond.” I mean, this is somebody that, as you acknowledged in your book, lied to the American people about what you had told him about Jan. 6, that you couldn’t do it. And he put out a statement saying you were in complete agreement with him — I mean that’s just one of many, many, many examples. You don’t still think that to know President Trump is to know that his word is his bond, again, not the record of the administration, Donald Trump, the man.

PENCE: I said that at that time and I meant it. I was deeply disappointed with the president’s words and conduct in the days leading up to Jan. 6, and on Jan. 6.

KARL: And since right? And since?


PENCE: Yes, you know, but but, you know, as I wrote in my book, the next day when the president committed to a peaceful transfer of power when he condemned the violence at the Capitol. I thought we were back on track and in the week that followed we would we spoke, I was very direct with him about my experience, and my view of it, and my belief that I’d done my duty, and we parted amicably and respectfully, but in the months that followed, he returned to that that same rhetoric he was using before Jan. 6, rhetoric that continues much up to this day and and that’s why we’ve gone our separate ways. And I continue to, I continue to be disappointed in the fact that the president has not seen his way clear to know that by God’s grace, we did our duty that day.

KARL: Can you can you clarify your position on testifying to the special counsel? I know that you’ve cited the speech and debate clause, you don’t want to talk about your role in presiding over the Congress on that day, but my understanding of the subpoenas are 16 separate things that they want from you — 16 different topic areas — and only maybe the most two of them would directly be about you presiding over the joint session that day. So are you willing to testify about other matters?

PENCE: Well, Jon, as you know, I’m limited in what I can say about proceedings related to the grand jury, but just as I did on Jan. 6, when I upheld the Constitution of the United States, I think preserving the separation of powers, the speech and debate protections that legislators have, and that those operating in the legislative branch have, is enormously important to the life of the nation. We simply don’t want an executive branch to be able to haul legislators into court every time that there’s a policy dispute. And so I’ve directed my attorneys to make, uh make a strong case in defense of my role as president of the Senate, presiding over a joint session of Congress on that day and in the preparation for that, and we’ll let the courts sort it out but I’ve actually never asserted that other matters unrelated to Jan. 6, would otherwise be protected by speech and debate. But I—

KARL: -So you may be willing to testify on other matters just not specifically your role–

PENCE: -I’m going to stand firm on the Constitution of the United States. We’ll let the courts sort that out. And, but I’ll [crosstalk] — I’ll obey the law

KARL: —Because I don’t want to misinterpret your remarks. You are open to testifying on other matters?

PENCE: We’re going to respect the decisions of the court and that may take us all the way to the highest court in the land. But I think this principle is an important one and I — I hope that people will see that throughout my career I’ve been a constitutional conservative, someone who believes in the Constitution as written and believes that the separation of powers is just as important as the work that we did, ensuring the peaceful transfer of power. Look, this is the greatest nation in the history of the world. And I believe much of that greatness springs from the heart of the American people, the faith in the American people. But ultimately, it is that form of government enshrined in the Constitution of the United States that has made it possible for us to create this extraordinary United States of America and I’m gonna stand on that. And we’re gonna make that case, but I promise you we’ll respect the decisions of the court. But I’m going to stand firmly on the Constitution.

KARL: But it’s not that you’re objecting to talking about, for instance, the broader effort to overturn the election. That was one of the other items.

PENCE: As I’ve said, we’re not asserting executive privilege, which may encompass other discussions. I believe the president may well have brought a claim for that. But I just believe that the work that I did preparing for and conducting on my role as president of the Senate is covered by the speech and debate clause. I believe we have the law on our side-

KARL: But the other issues

PENCE: But we’ll wait and see on the court.

KARL: OK. OK. Thank you for clarifying that because I know that you think big picture. Nobody is above the law. You don’t think Donald Trump is above the law?

PENCE: Nobody’s above the law. But nobody’s beneath the law either. And the American people are troubled after four years of our administration, seeing the politicization of the Justice Department, I strongly support the efforts in Congress to investigate the role that politics is playing in our justice system today. And this latest news of, of the Manhattan D.A. determined to apparently bring an indictment against a former president of the United States just feels like one more example of politics being in the lead in our justice system. And that’s not what the American people want. We want equal justice before the law, and that’s a principle I’ll always stand on.

KARL: So let’s turn to the next election — you’re here in Iowa. Are you running for president?

PENCE: Well, we’re giving serious consideration to it, Jon, and we’re getting a lot of encouragement, not only here in Iowa, but all across the country. When I, when I think of the blessings I’ve had in my life to serve in the Congress for 12 years, to serve as governor of Indiana and then as vice president of the United States and then I think of the magnitude of challenges facing this country at home and abroad under the failed record of the Biden administration, we’re, we’re giving, we’re giving prayerful consideration to what role we might play, but I think now is the time for for all of us that care about this country to consider our part to play a part and to make sure that we elect leadership at every level that will turn this country around in 2024 and beyond.

KARL: You said previously that your decision would come by spring. I know it doesn’t feel like spring out there. But Monday is officially the first day of spring. What’s your, what’s your timeline?

PENCE: Well, I can tell you we’re getting closer. I’ve been spending time with our family, been listening to friends around the country. And I expect before too long we’ll — we’ll know what our calling is. You know, Jon, it’s always for our family, It’s all about, It’s all about what we feel called to do. I think there’s two kinds of people in politics: people that are driven and people that are called. If you know my story, you’ll know I’ve been both in my life, but the last 20 years we’ve just tried to respond to what we sense is a calling of the American people and a sense of God’s calling in our life and we think we’ll have a good sense of that in the near future and I promise to keep you posted.

KARL: On Ukraine, you’ve taken, you’ve staken out really I guess you’d call it a Reagan-esque position of defending Ukraine, standing up against Russian aggression, but I’m sure you heard Gov. DeSantis say that the war in Ukraine is a territorial dispute. You would disagree.

PENCE: The war in Ukraine is not a territorial dispute. It’s a Russian invasion. It’s just the latest instance of Russia attempting to redraw international lines by force, and the United States of America must continue at a quickened pace to provide the Ukrainian military the support that they need to repel the Russian invasion, and the stakes are that high. This is, this is a test of American leadership, And a test, frankly, of the free world. As the leader of the free world, as the arsenal of Democracy, America needs to continue to ensure that the Ukrainian military has what they need. Anybody that thinks that Vladimir Putin will stop if he overruns Ukraine has another thing coming, Jon. And there’s no doubt in my mind, that the Baltics could be next. That what Putin is about, is reasserting that old Soviet sphere of influence in Eastern Europe. And the difference would be once he crosses into a NATO country we’ll have no choice but to send American service members into harm’s way. Now we can do as Ronald Reagan said we can, we can provide freedom fighters in their own countries, the resources to repel aggression there so that we don’t have to fight ’em here with our own soldiers. And that’s what we need to continue to do in Ukraine. I’ll continue to be a voice for that.

KARL: So what do you make of DeSantis calling it a territorial dispute? Because that’s virtually exactly what, how Putin describes it. And you said there’s no place for Putin apologists in the Republican Party and why is DeSantis-

PENCE: -Well

KARL: -saying that-

PENCE: There, there are, there are voices in our party that don’t see a vital American interest in Ukraine. But I see it differently. I truly do believe in that Reagan Doctrine that used to say back in the 1980s, that if you’re willing to fight the communists there, we’ll give you what you need, so we don’t have to fight ’em here. That set into motion the policies that brought the collapse of the Soviet Union. We, we have Russian aggression on the move, again, just as they did under Obama and Crimea, as they did under President Bush in Georgia. And we have to meet this moment with American strength. And make no mistake about it: Not only is American strength and the strength of the free world required to restrain Russia’s ambitions, but I think by standing strong with the Ukrainian people against Russia, we’ll also send a very clear message to China about its ambitions in the Asia Pacific and make sure they understand that the free world is prepared to rally around places like Taiwan in the event that, that China decides to move with the kind of aggression that we’ve seen from the Russian military.

KARL: Chris Christie said that DeSantis was naive in thinking we could just walk away. Do you see it that way? Is it naive to think that the United States can disengage and let the Russians and Ukrainians fight it out?

PENCE: I — I wouldn’t want to characterize it any other way than saying it’s wrong. The fact is, that, that Russia attempted to redraw international lines by force, under, under every administration in the 21st century except ours. And I think it was because we made historic investments in our military, we were willing to use force in Syria against the Bashar Assad’s regime. We, we unleashed the American military to take down the ISIS caliphate that, the, Russia saw American strength during the Trump-Pence administration. And after that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, I can’t help but believe that emboldened the enemies of freedom around the world. And so now more than ever, but we need to stand firm and let me say again, the Biden administration has to hasten and quicken the support that they’re providing to the Ukrainians.

KARL: F-16s?

PENCE: This, this business of pledging 33 Abrams tanks in January and then saying they won’t be there for a year and a half is unacceptable. We ought to provide the tanks, the missiles and the aircraft that the Ukrainian military can use to take the fight to the Russians. President Biden said in his State of the Union address that we’re there as long as it takes. Well the American people know it shouldn’t take that long. If we marshal the resources of the free world, the arsenal of democracy, give them what they need, they’ve demonstrated their courage, their tenacity and I believe the Ukrainians can repel that Russian invasion and reassert, reestablish peace in Eastern Europe.

KARL: Does President Biden deserve some credit, though, for keeping NATO together on this?

PENCE: Well, I think there’s a lot of credit to go around with NATO. We called on NATO to make renewed investments in our common defense and before we left office, $150 billion in commitments from NATO countries for our common defense. NATO was stronger the day we left office than the day we came into office. But I want to say again, I think the fact that the Biden administration cut off military aid to Ukraine in the early days of their administration, and then has been slow in providing that military aid, needs to be called out. I do believe that it’s imperative that we remain there. It’s commendable that the United States has provided leadership in the free world to marshal support against the Russian invasion. But, but, my message to the Biden administration is, is, pick up the pace. Give them what they need to win this war and we’ll, we’ll make a contribution to peace in Eastern Europe and in the world.

KARL: We’re just about out of time, but I also want to ask you about something. I want to ask you about what President Trump just said about, about Ukraine. He said that the war is a quote proxy battle between the United States and Russia, and he’s calling for an immediate ceasefire. Which, effectively, I, would freeze Putin’s gains in place, I suppose. I mean, what do you think about what President Trump is saying about Ukraine?

PENCE: Well, as I said, whether it’s President Trump or others in our party around the country, there, there are those who see some choice before us, other than giving Ukraine the ability to fight and win against the Russian invasion. I believe it’s imperative that we stand firm. That we continue to provide the Ukrainian military the resources that they need to repel the Russian invasion. And that will be the fastest way to secure peace and stability in Ukraine and in Eastern Europe.

KARL: Alright, Vice President Pence thank you for taking the time and I’ll hold you to it, you’ll let us know when you decide about running for president

PENCE: We sure will, Jon. Thank you.

KARL: Thank you. Take care, sir. Appreciate it.

[Transcript Link]